Stealing

BeyondRedemption · Post by **BeyondRedemption** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 5:25 am

Delemont wrote:
Evelond Formos wrote:but give them less of a chance of getting your prized items, stock up on bullets or something, sell the things you don't use that are of considerable worth
How is loading up on bullets anything but metagaming?

Not all metagaming is bad.

Maankin · Post by **Maankin** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:05 am

If and when the magic bag lag issues gets resolved, a solution would be to let a merchant sell safeboxes. At a ratio of at most 1 box a person. Items inside a safebox cannot be stolen.

But I also like the "drop all stolen loot on death withing 10 minutes of stealing" or "the exploding/cursed items" idea.

Combined with some sensable rules like "the full plate armor you're wearing can't be pickpocketed" PP could become more player friendly.

Neradur_Verus · Post by **Neradur_Verus** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:25 am

I think I would agree that a thief, no matter how good, should not be able to lift an 80 pound piece of armor off you.... Unless they catch you flat-footed, drunk and having relations with a sheep.

Sheep · Post by **Sheep** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 4:19 pm

I strongly resent that.

gnatrc · Post by **gnatrc** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:30 pm

I myself have had characters pick pocketed numerous times and twice while I was engaged with fighting wolves...lol. I also had quest items stolen twice and was able to talk the thief into giving them back to me. I have one character that detects pick pocketing fairly well and it is good for letting me know when I have been stolen from, but does not prevent the theft:(.

I have also been bullied while hunting wolves and told I was hunting in the the said bully's turf. The diffence between this PvP and the encounters with the pick pocket is that I had a choice in how this situation played out. In a PP encounter, the victim has no real choice.

Being a rogue doesn't mean being a thief. For that matter, being a thief doesn't mean being a pick pocket.

The question is, do the merits of the Sleight of Hand skill outweigh the downsides?

In the end I will play in whatever environment the Dasaria admins decide upon.

For those of us players that use the Sleight of Hand skill we need to show respect for the fact that the victims have little choice in the matter and we should use the skill sparingly.

-gnat

Post by **Vahene** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 7:55 pm

For those of us players that use the Sleight of Hand skill we need to show respect for the fact that the victims have little choice in the matter and we should use the skill sparingly.

That's really the bottom line, I think.

In the Pick Pocket's eyes you have someone assuming its all fun, and its a skill in the game, so why aren't you allowed to use it? The Pick Pocket might assume that it doesn't matter that the person can't see them--in truth, it probably doesn't occur to them about 99 percent of the time whether or not someone has skill in spot, or they just stupidly assume that every character should crosstrain in spot, and spend 2 points for every one they get in it.. or that every character should have to take Able Learner (maybe we should default it to every character since apparently so many people think its required to train in cross skills).

Then you have the Victim, who basically says, look, I can't see you. I'm having things stolen that I just bought, healing potions, half-plate armor, weapons--some of which you shouldn't even be able to lift with the Pick Pocket's likely strength modifier, let alone walk away with. However, you are walking away with them.. not to mention quest items too, quests that you probably can't even do because hey, the Victim's only level 2.

I'm being highly sarcastic in this post, so if that offends people, well, I don't really care if it offends anyone, these are my views.

Looking at several points:

1. Get more spot skill - how exactly is someone supposed to do that? Sacrifice skills that a character actually needs in difference to putting double the amount of points in spot that is necessary? Or, ohhh, I know, you can take Able Learner (this requires everyone withotu Spot as a core skill to take it mind you, basically, everyone except Rogues, Rangers and I think Bards) so that you can get it for one point each. Guess what, my level 2 is a warlock. She puts her points in other core skills that are required for her to survive.

2. Roll a rogue - oh, what a genius idea. I thought I'd mention this one before someone pointed it out. I have one. It didn't happen to be the character I was playing at the time. I've played them in the past, and in fact, my elven rogue Ivae in Dasaria 1 was a KNOWN thief from her RP. Because I gave her that reputation, everyone assuemed she was--and they assumed wrong about 99 percent of the time

3. Stealing items too large to carry - half-plate armor, weapons most of them with the exception probably of darts, arrows, bolts, daggers, and kukri's -- actually all armor and clothing now that I'm on the subject. Why in the world could you walk away with anything that makes you encumbered or has the possibility of doing so? I don't know about you, but my rogue's core skills are in Dexterity and Intelligence (for the skill points). I'm not putting tons of points in Strength in order to recover or encounter encumberance. To me, this is not only wrong, but its an abuse and exploit of the Sleight of Hand skill to be able to get these items in the first place.

4. Metagaming - okay, let's get this bullet metagaming thing out of the way here. A DM suggested it. I don't think that means that you're going to get burnt alive for doing it. And it isn't a bad suggestion Wyvern made, and I might just do it. I don't see this as metagaming, I see it as creatively diverting a thief's attention.

5. Suggestions: Things I've seen suggested in this thread, chopping off someone's hand (now, it isn't a bad idea, and I do play a thief, and I have advocated on these boards RP with the thief rather than conflict). This brings up another thought, how do you RP with the thief? Well, if you're the victim, you're at the benefit of the thief themselves. If they don't RP their pickpocketing attempt as a bump or as "you dropped this" or something that is creatively similiar, it boils down to -- the person wants to steal from you for personal gratification of some sort, and they don't want to be bothered with RPing at all. If you aren't bothered with attempting RPing at all, why are you playing this module at all?

I'd go into more detail, more than I have all ready about thoughts that have been building in my head, but its time for me to leave work.

-K

Stormknife · Post by **Stormknife** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:32 pm

Able learner reduces the cost of cross-class skills.

It does not increase the maximum number of ranks you can have in a cross class skill. At least, it's not supposed to.

Evelond Formos · Post by **Evelond Formos** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:05 pm

Hmm, in NwN1 it was possible to make items not pickable, but that may have been only for NPCs . . . I don't really care, heh . . . just pointing out a possible solution.

Judas · Post by **Judas** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:34 pm

Maankin wrote:If and when the magic bag lag issues gets resolved, a solution would be to let a merchant sell safeboxes. At a ratio of at most 1 box a person. Items inside a safebox cannot be stolen. .

Just what I was thinking , well kindo ...

You can only pinch small to medium , and only keep small to medium in the secret hidden bag .. That and a few other ideas ; like only dropping the things you stole in the last 10 mins upon pvp death and not everything ... But yeah , nail on the head !

..

If people don’t put important things in the secret hidden bag then they can't complain if said important things get stolen ..

If you stretch this idea out it will allow a black market where you can sell stolen goods at a reduced rate , and a whole loto other things at as well ...

Wumpus Slayer · Post by **Wumpus Slayer** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 6:04 pm

Ok, so today was my first experience getting pick pocketed. I was in the ironback store talking to one of the merchants. Another player was talking to the merchant, immediately breaks that off, picks my pocket, and then immediately LOGS OFF. How the hell am I supposed to role-play that?

The only good news is that the server reset shortly after and I hadn't saved, so I got the missing item back.

As a constructive idea, if the DM can't or chooses not to disable PP, how about finding some way to require DM approval before allowing players to gain ranks in that Sleight of Hand? That would restrict the skill to those who demonstrate the inclination to use it responsably.

baby1111007 · Post by **baby1111007** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 6:08 pm

Wumpus , in the event that it happens again, do try to get the name of the character and the player's log in, and report him to Jeh or Wyv in a PM. While not exactly against the server rules, that is considered very bad form and if the staff knows who is behaving in such a manner, they can take diciplinary action.

Stormknife · Post by **Stormknife** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 6:09 pm

DM approval for only some people to have skills would probably be a pain in the butt to code.

Edit: Commentary on possible actions retracted since Mich beat me to it.

Wumpus Slayer · Post by **Wumpus Slayer** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 6:17 pm

Rest assured that I did write down both the character and username of who did it. The DM will get my report.

ChikenKannon · Post by **ChikenKannon** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 6:29 pm

I'm having things stolen that I just bought, healing potions, half-plate armor, weapons--some of which you shouldn't even be able to lift with the Pick Pocket's likely strength modifier, let alone walk away with.

Hey! Some of us Pickpockets have over 20 strength. Robbing people down to their undies takes alot of physical work.

Other than that I support you completetly.

-----------

Two tips I reccomend -

1) If people are bumping into you, back away and say something, "Stay at an arms length", "Back off", "Hands off", "Some room please?". Just let them know to stay back, if they keep running into you check your inventory and tell them to BACK THE HELLS UP. Assert yourself, don't let people you don't know come close to you.

2) Don't run into people, if you tend to run into people alot, stop doing it right now! I snatch from every two-bit knight who thinks he is better than me and pushes me out of the way, and I usally am able to do it because when a person runs in to get to the blacksmith they bump into gods-know how many people. THEN as they run out they take the same path and bump into the same people, and that is when I grab your purse.

Guten Raynor · Post by **Guten Raynor** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 7:05 pm

I had a nice encounter with a PP. I had finally gotten my first bit of gold from the writs quest and was headed into Cear.

Streets are almost empty, she runs out from between two building, slams into me, then runs off down the street.

I look in my coinpurse and i'm missing HALF my coins.

Now in the end I got my money back, with much IC grief about me being poor and it being a 'gift' but I mean COME ON. RP the pickpocketing.

I don't mind if i'm stolen from (at level 1 with 75gold consisting of EVERYTHING I have, actually I do in that case.) but that is pretty damn obvious.

I think protection of lowbies is important in this respect. 1 pickpocketing and half my gold is gone. Things are already really expensive as it is without having my gold snatched.