The Developmental State of Dasaria

Crispy · Post by **Crispy** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 6:57 pm

I want to preface this post by stating clearly that, as a newer player, I in no way wish to criticize the builders of this world, its staff nor its players. I respect very much the amount of work that has gone into this project, as well as the history of Dasaria going back to NWN1 and the long, successful campaign that has gained such a loyal following.

That being said, I also do not want to shy away from asking some (possibly) hard questions. That's just the kind of person I am, so here goes.

I am not an avid pw player; in fact Dasaria II is my first experience with persistent, but I think I'm sensing some stagnancy and that leads me to wonder what the future plans are for this server and its playerbase. Are new areas in development? Are plans for more DM interaction and direct storyline development "in the cards"?

I ask because my character is already fast approaching level 11, and while that's no amazing feat, still, I feel that since this has been accomplished exclusively through what I would loosely term "grinding", as opposed to more organized or "meaningful" interaction with the world, something seems to be missing. For example, organized events like the tournament that we had (which I actually only observed since I was still very new) are very rare. That's the only one I've seen or heard about. There have been four times I've personally observed direct DM interaction, and while those have been great, they were short-lived and also seem relatively rare.

I want to feel like my character is part of a larger thing. I'd like to know that there are (or will be) opportunities to affect the world around me, more opportunities to have truly meaningful role-playing, and that I'm not stuck in just a level grinder. I chose this particular pw because of its roleplaying style, the care that has been put into its background and details, and because of its fascinating, fascinating history. I want to be a part of that and to see this world grow.

Please, again, do not take my comments and concerns as criticism. I may be way off, and my lack of patience may be completely responsible for these feelings. I also realize that the technical issues surrounding the game's engine and poor multiplayer coding are probably largely responsible for the perceived lack of advancement. Yet I still can't help but feel that things have grown a little stale, just from this newbie's point of view.

Tell me to shut up and be patient, and I'll be happy.

Consider me to be a nosy busy-body.

That's fine, but also realize I'm only piping up out of concern and great admiration for Dasaria. Either that or I'm just bored and wanted to type out something while here at work.

Ha, no seriously, please comment. Players and devs alike, maybe just some discussion about future plans and some reassurance that Das's future is bright? I guess that's all I'm really asking for.

Much respect,
Crispy

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 7:15 pm

We are keenly aware that things are slow moving, but the wheels are turning, albeit slowly. Players will come and go, and return again, just to check in from time to time. Unfortunately, NWN 2 is far from being what NWN 1 was. It may never be, no matter how many fixes it takes. Problems plague persistent worlds using broken tools and it is a testament to the fact that many PW projects have already closed doors. Dasaria has been ldling, as has been stated before, and there isn't a chance in hell that development can continue at the pace the players want, need or expect. It's just how it is. We don't have any plans to shut down the server yet, but expect things to come eventually. We had our last significant update several weeks ago, and the dock area is currently under development. There is not much else we can do. I committed myself 100% to the project for close to seven months and got burned out badly by it. I don't mind admitting now that it just isn't worth that anymore. So I, and the others, will do what the can, when they can and nothing more. It will mean that progress wont be rapid however.

I don't know what to tell you past what has been stated before. I also can't give any deadlines for delivery because activity will always ebb and flow, players will come and go, stories will be ran from time to time, and who knows, one day we may even be able to start the campaign we have planned for this world. Stranger things have happened.

Starkwold · Post by **Starkwold** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 7:16 pm

First off, let me preface this post by saying development is always occurring in Dasaria, be it minor tweaks to a dungeon, new items, new functions, new areas, new quests, etc. In fact, as we speak, there is plans for a small addition in the next few weeks, and a larger addition is also presently in development by one of Dasaria's chief DMs. Unfortunately, as Wyvern has said, there are some platform concerns that can slow down the development process. It's certainly not going to stop us from expanding Dasaria, however. As the patches come down the pipe, the ease of which we can crank out content will improve.

There is never a "stagnant" moment on Dasaria's development side. Does it slow down from time to time? Absolutely it does. Our Development Team volunteers their time best they can, and there are times within the year that such time can become quite limited. There are a number of DMs that are currently busy with RL work and life, but we still have 4+ Developers working on various content, be it lore additions, story additions, quest additions, area additions, script additions and game play feature additions. DM Sabre has been fairly active in game running small mini-events and story-arcs for various players and groups, and has been doing a hell of a job at it.

Less than two months (about 1.5 months) we saw a significant addition in the form of Aucklorn Mill, a 4+ exterior area village/valley package for levels 8-15, and hopefully that and other areas will be expanded in the future.

I'll finish by saying that there is no such time when development does not take place, or is not in the works on Dasaria's development team. We are always working on one project or another for the world. The availability of our free-time, however, determines how quickly such content becomes publicly available.

- GB Falcon

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 7:22 pm

Let me put my money where my mouth is. Here is what I JUST took, of what I am working on:

Enough development for you?

Atharin · Post by **Atharin** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 7:23 pm

Touchy subject, this, as far as multiplayer servers go: A similar discussion about this started a while back, though it was regretfully cast aside due to several reasons. I hope this doesn't turn out to a thread wherein people cry for attention and quickly assume the offensive. Moreso, I hope the staff doesn't feel the need to get too defensive either.

That said... I agree with the OP.

The server is going pretty slow, as far as story (not area) development goes. The little push and support players need to launch into some more immersive player-driven politics just doesn't seem to be coming.

Why? I won't pretend to know, myself. It was mentioned that it may be NWN2's current state. Real-life, too. Time spent on area development. And so on, and so forth: These may all be valid. But the fact stands that players - new and old - are feeling the server is beginning to stagnate. And that's never a good thing.

I'm not going to claim the players need attention desperately: They need it, but they seem to be doing moderately well so far. Still, the whole experience can be taken to whole new levels if you just give some responsible players more power, cause, drive. Something to get them to take an active stance when the DMs aren't around.

It doesn't need to be much to begin with, but it needs to be.

P.S
Looking hot, Wyvern.

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 7:27 pm

DM Sabre has recently been stepping up and running frequent (several a day) player-centric events. It is happening. As far as campaign shake ups go, those are still in the wings, but I know of at least one significant powershift that will be coming very soon. So keep your eyes open.

DM Sabre · Post by **DM Sabre** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 7:33 pm

While I would love to spend the majority of time running events for players ( this is actually what I enjoy most) for the past week the majority of my time has been spent babysitting ( for want of a better word.) When my in box becomes filled with accusations of wrongdoing and exploiting, that is something that must be investigated and handled. An unfortunately it also keeps me from doing what I would rather be doing as well.

Patience is a virtue it is said, and one I do not actually possess myself so I do understand why these posts are made. But unfortunately, patience is what is required.

Crispy · Post by **Crispy** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 7:34 pm

Wyvern wrote:Let me put my money where my mouth is.

Oh ship!

Looks great, Wyvern!

Depheant · Post by **Depheant** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 7:38 pm

A lot of the problems would actually go away if there were more DMs. I've always felt that this particular PW suffered from a small team, be it in NwN1 or NwN2.

There were and are enough responsible players that could handle the ability to DM, and if something did turn out not right, it could be solved very simply by removing the DM. An issue however, is that traditionally, Dasaria didn't make a distinction between DM and developer. A lot of successful PWs out there have a section of the team that is dedicated solely to DMing; who never ever have access to the server assets other than what you can use via the in-game interface.

I tired to push for this several times when I was more involved with the server, however, as you can see - this never transpired. I still strongly believe this would be a viable solution to the stagnation that has plagued and will plague this particular PW until there are changes to the team structure. Something I've never kept a secret.

If things are moving in-game, people will notice more slowly that new content is slow to come; that, coincidentally is again in part due to a small team but also because of the game itself. On average, it takes about four times longer to build something in NwN2 than in NwN1. Put simply, you can never expand at the same rate that you could with NwN1, and that is discounting all of the performance factors that you must take into account.

Greyshore · Post by **Greyshore** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 7:48 pm

If anyone else is having doubts on the team's current efforts and doings, I advise you to take a look at the following sections of the forums.

Bug Reporting

Closed Bug Reports

Also, is that a flying rock I see?

Crispy · Post by **Crispy** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 7:49 pm

I don't know if the Lamond brothers are DM-controlled or not (I can't tell), but they both deserve recognition, I think, for taking on a much-needed authoritative role in town. AFAIK they don't do any questing, and it shows great dedication to their roles to do what they do as city guards. Great examples of players (?) who care.

I also think it's a real testament to the loyal following of this server the sheer number of views that this thread alone has had so far. People want this thing to take off (and it has, but just seems to have slowed down) and that is something that the devs should be excited about.

There is so much potential here. I agree, maybe new blood is needed?

Also, is it any easier to develop underground areas? I know there's no "Underdark" in Dasaria's world, but it seems like some vast underground areas with plenty of evil intrigue might be just what the doctor ordered. The docks look fantastic so far, but maybe some slightly-easier-to-develop Underdark-"type" areas would help? Just throwing ideas out there.

Post by **Vahene** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:14 pm

Nice ship.

Looks good Wyvern.

..while I understand the frustration of the upper level characters, and trust me I do understand, patience must be applied. I will be the first to admit, I don't have very much of this - especially with my computer at the moment - but, when I am in game, I struggle to find anyone who will notice my characters. Sometimes, I am forced to go hunting, when I rather would be standing around and RPing with someone. The hunt to level 20 will really get you nothing more than bragging rights and probably a visit with Raven, so I'm in no hurry to be first.

It amazes me how people will go hunting and often overlook the RPing opportunities in front of them. When I do manage to stay in the game, without crashes and severe graphics glitches that force me to log out and in (like the 5 times this morning, 4 of which where NWN2 transition crashes), the RPing is usually either absent completely, rare, or it lasts for hours. I do long for the days of Das1, where all of us could be standing around and suddenly Talon surrounded us, but I, and everyone else, simply needs to be patient and wait for Obsidian to fix their damn game so that we can have that again.

If it doesn't happen, though. I suppose we could all reinstall NWN1.

K

Wumpus Slayer · Post by **Wumpus Slayer** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:25 pm

Ok, so that just begs the question...

If NWN2 is so unstable and frustrating... why not utilize NWN1 to create Dasaria 2.1 (i.e. keep the same plot as now, but use the stable engine)?

Grayle · Post by **Grayle** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:57 pm

When I joined Dasaria1, the server had already been up and running for over a year. The campaign world was pretty large already and DM events seemed to be happening constantly, from simple NPC conversations for the sheer sake of player/world interaction, to attacks upon the local community center by various baddies. I think there were 6 or so active DMs at that time. I don't remember there being any terrible bugs the like that NwN2 has seen. Whether that was because NwN1 was a more stable platform or because of staff intervention, i don't know. Well, that is until recently I didn't know. I still don't really understand all the issues, as I've seen monsters spawned without crashes, gained XP rewards from invisible DMs, had conversations with NPCs, etc. I'm pretty ignorant about how the DM client works in NwN, tho.

I wasn't sure if the lack of DM/Player interaction was by choice while in BETA, or if it was a platform issue. I have witnessed and partaken in a few small events so far that created an amazing amount of atmosphere for me. Player/player interaction is fun, but it rapidly becomes the same ol' hamburger and french fries. Pen and paper has just spoiled me(as has Das1, probably): No DM, it's not D & D. I have always played NwN with the DM staff as my audience, because it's the DMs that enable a character to have an influence upon the world, and the player to feel like portrayal is important or rewarding...DM approval means the player 'gets it' and his play style enhances things.

I'm a really impatient person. I also sometimes (neurotically) take on the role of 'addressing things' out in the open, with the intent of ending the rumormill and getting at the truth. The truth seems to be that the platform is the biggest challenge to Dasaria's expansion and the enjoyment of the staff, in relation to the time spent/benefit gained ratio. I don't envy the DMs suffering the frustration of mediochre tools. I wish I could give more to this project, especially since Dasaria has given me so much.

Somehow, the platform hinderances need to be overcome or side-stepped. Half of this campaign's game is lived on the forums. Rumors, NPC interaction...i'm sure there are some tricks that a creative DM might use to increase the pulse. Can't RP with the players in-game? RP it here. The game itself is secondary to the campaign to many of us.

So, I'm learning patience because this campaign is worth it. I can envision the creative tidal wave that will occur if the ails get cured.

Torquil Lamond · Post by **Torquil Lamond** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 12:41 am

Crispy wrote:I don't know if the Lamond brothers are DM-controlled or not (I can't tell), but they both deserve recognition, I think, for taking on a much-needed authoritative role in town. AFAIK they don't do any questing, and it shows great dedication to their roles to do what they do as city guards. Great examples of players (?) who care.

We are not DMs, just players who have an idea, and who enjoy the role we play.

I am very glad that some players seem to derive some enjoyment from the position we hold!

We try to quest, but that doesn't always work when there's the Watch to see to.

As for the "stagnation" of Dasaria, I haven't really felt a lot of it. I see Sabre in game stirring things up, I see content always coming down the pipe from the developers, and I see some great RP happening frequently throughout the day, and the week. I mean, Dasaria still hits the low 30s on weekends, and the mid 20s on the weekends. That's pretty strong, and I've seen no decrease in activity nor RP in the past few months. I think someone already posted a thread remarking on the great RP abound in Dasaria these days.

I think that while we all would love some DM interaction, all of us, we must also focus on trying to create stories among ourselves, which has been happening with some great results!

The only other thing I can think of is that DM interaction will occur on a much larger scale when the City of Cear and the surrounding landscape has been developed to a desirable level. When that has happened, when the DMs have more legroom to stretch, we'll see some more activity.