Can anyone craft magical arms / armor yet?

TheSilverHammer · Post by **TheSilverHammer** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:07 pm

Id like to get some magical Kamas that have some elemental damage like acid or fire. No one I have talked to can do anything aside from crafting the basic weapon, like an adamantie kama with no + or damage.

I am not sure if creating a weapon with + to hit / damage is a basic crafting thing or if it part of the enchanting thing. If they are seperate, then at some point I would like to get some 3+ Adamatite magical kamas even if you can't add elemental damage to them.

Bobzim · Post by **Bobzim** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:30 pm

SH,

To my knowledge nobody has yet discovered a recipe for CMA&A. My crafter, Amnon Meshullam (who incidentally is the current leader of the Order of the Diamond, a growing crafter's guild in Cear) has been working diligently to discover these CMA&A recipes. This requires many hours of fruitless crafting failures in order to "discover" a recipe that works. It is going to be a while before you have the item you seek. But I assure you one day you will have precisely the weapons you desire.

TheSilverHammer · Post by **TheSilverHammer** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:18 pm

They really ought to have some very rare drop recipes from high level dungeons. Maybe an epic crafting quest. For example, the emperor has a need for 1000 swords, shields, and suits of armor. Part of the payment for fulfilling this might be a recipe to improve armor or weapons in some way.

Also since this is such a RP server it doesn't make sense that such recipes should be 'random' in nature. For example, lets say that to add 1d6 of fire damage to a weapon you needed: The weapon in question, a basilisks eye, an agate (gem), and then you had to cast web in order to craft the item, it would not make any sense at all.

You should in theory be able to rationalize the choices, even if they not crystal clear. For example to get the same 1d6 fire damage on a weapon maybe you need lesser fire elemental essence (from weaker fire elementals), a fire opal, and you needed to cast burning hands.

That would make sense. So as a crafter if you want to do anything fire related, you would automatically know that all spells / ingredients need to be fire related. Furthermore weaker items take weaker fire related items, and stronger ones take higher level fire related items. However since no one knows ANY crafting recipes like this you can't know if the items are themed or if it really is just random junk.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 11:51 pm

Click Here.

That post lists every craftable item and the skill or feat needed to create it. Creating enchanted weapons are possible using either the Craft Weapon skill or the Craft Magical Arms and Armor feat. Several characters have figured out how to create magical weapons using the skill, but I do not think anyone has yet figured out the feat.

The crafting recipes are not random in nature. They are structured and logical. Once you've figured out one recipe, other related recipes are easy to figure out.

blackheart · Post by **blackheart** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 4:24 pm

search.php

TheSilverHammer · Post by **TheSilverHammer** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:29 pm

I think you missed the point of my response. I know *what* can be crafted there, but no body knows how.

So what are people trying to figure out how to add + fire damage to an item?

Has it come down to sticking a weapon and a random set of 2 to 4 ingredients in a magic workbench and casting a random spell on it and hoping that one day will end up with a flaming weapon?

If that is the system, then that is what I was commenting on. A crafter should have a good general idea of what is needed to craft a certain enchantment. For example, you know if you want to add fire damage to a weapon then everything must be fire themed. You would know that you need some kind of power essence, some kind of fire element (essence of fire, fire beetle bellies, alchemists fire, etc....) and some kind of fire spell.

That still leaves a lot of questions and experimentation, but at least you have a general ball-bark idea of where to go.

When you finally learn a recipe, you should think to yourself "Oh, that makes sense."

Eowade · Post by **Eowade** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:36 pm

Heh I added several grey hairs when trying to figure out any recipe at all on my crafter using the craft magic arms and armor feat. Those poor crafting tables have been used and abused I cast every spell I could come up with with all sorts of different things on those tables. Someone eventually gave me a hint on how to make basic +1 and +2 items but I still have not managed to figure out anything further although I kind of got fed up trying and gave up.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:44 pm

Silver Hammer,

I didn't miss the point of your response.

In your first post, you said, "No one I have talked to can do anything aside from crafting the basic weapon, like an adamantie kama with no + or damage." To which I replied, "Several characters have figured out how to create magical weapons using the skill, but I do not think anyone has yet figured out the feat." You also said, "I am not sure if creating a weapon with + to hit / damage is a basic crafting thing or if it part of the enchanting thing." To which I replied, "Creating enchanted weapons are possible using either the Craft Weapon skill or the Craft Magical Arms and Armor feat." I also pointed you in the direction of a post that specifically listed which items / enchantments are possible with each skill.

In your second post you made the assertion that the recipes were "random". You continue this assertion in your third post. I'll repeat myself, so you do not miss the point of my response, "The crafting recipes are not random in nature. They are structured and logical. Once you've figured out one recipe, other related recipes are easy to figure out.".

Saying, "no body knows how" to craft these items is completely false! My guild knows how to make probably 75% of the craftable items. And, I'm certain the crafting guild can probably make close 90% of the items.

The scenario you described where a crafter has a general "ball-bark" idea of where to go is exactly how the system works. I'm certain Bobzim and every other crafters thought, "Oh, that makes sense" after discovering a recipe.

Yes, it has come down to figuring out how to add things like fire damage to an item, because everything else has be figured out. Trying to work out the recipes through trial and error is hopeless. The permutations of 2 to 4 ingredients is beyond the power of my calculator to determine. And yet, people have figured out most of the recipies. I think that proves the recipies are not random.

Seise · Post by **Seise** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:01 am

Do they?
Not too long time ago I heard the Order of the Diamond knew none of the enchantment recipies.

"if we'd only know one to get started", said BZ like week ago on his post.
And he is/was leading the Order of the Diamond.

And saying 90% sounds more or less rubbish to me, as most of the ingridients are not on the droptables yet. That's stated by Wyvern on his post where he has listed the possible craft item list.
And as you said, the permutations are quite huge amount, and definelty not not discovered by players. Even if there'd be one spell of known level and 2 items, it would give something like 2^ingridiet possibilities^possible spell amount permutations. Even if the numbers are that simple, amount of the possible chances are thousands, when you add the fact that the spell can be any class and any level, and ingridient amount can be something varying from 1 to 4.. ER..
Discovering 90% those within a week? I bet there ain't that powerful computer around which could test all the possible permujtations within a week, not to mention that there is rest timer limiting the testing.

If you counted 'normal items' (like mithril/adamantium/darksteel/iron) on your numbers, it would just twist the numbers. And twisting statistics to favor one is not nice, atleast as I see it.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:50 am

There are 585 recipies. Almost all of them, except the 52 which use the craft magical arms and armor feat, have been discovered. Which is way I said, "I'm certain the crafting guild can probably make close 90% of the items."

It's the crafting guild's goal is to discover the remaining recipies. Through force of will or through role play they will discover them. In game discovery is the main theme of the entire system...hell it's a major theme of the entire campaign.

Seise · Post by **Seise** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:59 am

Sorry if I managed to get that sound offensive, that wasn't my purpose.

Purpose was to point out how hard is discover those "hidden" recipes.
Ofcourse there is RP factor on it and perhaps some recipes are given to crafter's guild and some others are given via continous RPing due search for those.
But the point was to show how huge is the amount of possible permutations and to show that it's technically impossible to bruteforce few first recipes out.

I understood your post to say that 90% of enchantments have been found, which wasn't what you said. Sorry about that.

Bobzim · Post by **Bobzim** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:47 am

What Rob is saying makes perfect sense. Diligence will eventually yield a recipe, the logical extension of which will be a whole class of recipes, following the same "structure" (i.e., components and spell). It's true that finding the first recipe will be hard. It may eventually involve some sort of RP quest or event to point us in the right direction, at least for CMA&A.

The crafters in the Order of the Diamond will all be able to craft the items in the "Craftable Items" thread as I know all of those recipes already. The only ones as yet unknown are the CMA&A feat recipes, and eventually we will have those as well. But the purpose of the guild is not to "spread" the recipes in a forum.

We created the guild in order to make a fun RP avenue for "learning" recipes through apprenticeship and RPing IG, not to keep them a secret, horde them, or in some way not tell about them. So if you craft, join us and it won't be too long before you are making what we make (i.e., assuming you have the needed skills/feats).

Once you join the guild, you will have access to our forum and you will be able to post your ideas for an RP-adventure/event to "unlock" a hint about the first CMA&A recipe.

Please remember that Das2 is our world, we are the players, and we are the ones who have to keep it fun and interesting. We shouldn't expect Rob or any of the DMs/builders to just give up the ghost to us. That wouldn't be any fun.

Anyway, if you craft and have not yet signed up to join the Order, consider it. You may be surprised how quickly things advance once we are all masters of our craft and focused on CMA&A together. Right now, there are very few of us even trying it.

Thracius Trueblade · Post by **Thracius Trueblade** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:44 am

Hehe, interesting this should come up. I've been obsessing over the whole crafting thing pretty much since I starting playing Dasaria. I'm hoping to join the order of the diamond once they have set themselves up.

The stuff that can be crafted using the craft weapons/armour skills are just basic (non-enchanted) weapons, both from standard iron and exotic materials, and enchanted items up to +2 made from iron only. People have known pretty much all there is to know about this skill for months now.

I don't believe that anyone actually DOES know how to craft +3/+4/+5 weapons yet, as far as I know, the ingredients haven't been put into the game yet, and therefore nobody can be totally sure about these recipes. That said, I'm sure that many people (myself included) have a fairly decent idea which items would be needed to craft them (except the +5, that one puzzles me a bit).

As for the CMA&A..... I have the feat, I've spent many hours bashing away at the workbench in the charms shop, and I've had no luck so far, except for one curious thing which I'm keeping to myself for now (it's probably nothing, but I live in hope).

I've spent a lot of time talking to various people ingame about all sorts of crafting related stuff, and whilst I must admit at first not liking the total lack of information we've had on crafting recipes, I do think it's the best way to handle crafting. It's great putting your head together with others and trying to figure out recipes with little or no information. And two of the best moments for me in Dasaria so far have been a) when I tried to make an enchanted weapon for the umpteenth time and it actually worked, b) when, after about 2 weeks of trying, I succeeded in crafting some elemental arrows.

I'm proud of the fact I worked out how to make this stuff on my own, and the sense of accomplishment you get when you finally nail a recipe just wouldn't be the same if we were handed all the details on a silver platter. I expect the main aim of the Order of the Diamond, once established, will be to discover the means for using CMA&A, and I think it's gonna be great having everyone working together to achieve a goal like that.

Bobzim · Post by **Bobzim** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:43 pm

Thanks Thracius. Very well said. It really is fun discovering the recipes IG. And yes, the main objective of the Order (i.e., as members become Masters of crafting) will be to "unlock" the secrets of the as yet unlearned recipes. But we want to do it in an RP/IC way, rather than sharing information openly in our forum. I am pretty sure this was the intent of the builders/DMs of Das2 and we think it is right on target.

I am VERY confident that with a large number of us working in a coordinated manner, it will not be nearly as daunting finding that first recipe. While the combinatorics of this are relatively substantial, with enough peeps focused on it and not duplicating efforts, we should be able to nail something down as the number of spells/gems/ingredients is finite and somewhat small.

Sorry for the slowness of the recruitment for the Order. We only have two of us leading at this stage and my time online during peak hours is limited. If you prefer to send me your info in a PM, I am open to that. But we would like to interview everyone if it's possible. Anyway, this PW is on a sort of slow track, so we are pacing ourselves. There is no rush, since once we get the CMA&A recipes "solved" there won't be anything else to discover until CWI is added to the PW.