Epic Levels

Evelond Formos · Post by **Evelond Formos** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:58 pm

I say no to them. I'll probably not contribute much to the discussion, just reminding people that the matter needs to be resolved soon.

blackheart · Post by **blackheart** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:13 pm

I think there's already a thread on this.

Post by **Vahene** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:26 pm

There were no epics in Das 1, despite having both expansions.

So, I agree Eve. I'd say no as well.

K

Ron · Post by **Ron** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:06 am

I agree for what it's worth.

Elvith · Post by **Elvith** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 1:07 am

I think that they can be pretty overpowered, but one server I used to play in had the DMs award level tokens to players who played through DM quests or had a great RP or something. They were also awarded for stuff like doiing some quests for your first time. That server required you to stop at level 10 until you got level tokens, so few made it past 20, but it gave incentive to keep using a character. (They also imposed a 90% xp penalty on level 20+ characters and made each quest give less xp each time you did it, so that at very high levels the only reliable way to get xp was to have DMs award it to you)

That's just a thought, I really wouldn't like seeing everyone as alevel 30 walking around.

ErictheRed · Post by **ErictheRed** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:20 am

I also vote for no, unless there's a compelling reason to allow them. Twenty levels is enough, and we don't need a bunch of demi-gods running around town.

Stormknife · Post by **Stormknife** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 5:33 am

I vote we worry about things that are actually on the horizon.

I doubt that epic levels'll even be considered until there's content all the way up to 20. This isn't a dig on the DMs, just a statement on the logistics involved.

Thracius Trueblade · Post by **Thracius Trueblade** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 3:29 pm

Elvith wrote:I think that they can be pretty overpowered, but one server I used to play in had the DMs award level tokens to players who played through DM quests or had a great RP or something. They were also awarded for stuff like doiing some quests for your first time. That server required you to stop at level 10 until you got level tokens, so few made it past 20, but it gave incentive to keep using a character. (They also imposed a 90% xp penalty on level 20+ characters and made each quest give less xp each time you did it, so that at very high levels the only reliable way to get xp was to have DMs award it to you)

That's just a thought, I really wouldn't like seeing everyone as alevel 30 walking around.

Following that train of thought, why not allow levels over 20, but just not have any quests for people above level 20 at all. That way the only way they could gain experience would be through DM awards (and it's going to take a long time to get the 20,000 exp required for level 21 just through that).

Only allowing epic levels through DM award would allow exceptional players who through RP manage to develop their character into a real hero (or villian) that has a impact on the gameworld, whilst simultaneously stopping illiterate WoW kiddies with powerbuilt characters from simply grinding their way up to godhood.

Allowing the possibility of levelling up beyond 20 will encourage people to keep playing with older characters more often, rather than just re-rolling to a new character (which is what a lot of people seem to be doing at the moment). But if epic levels are allowed, they should be REALLY hard to get, in my opinion.

StormRunner · Post by **StormRunner** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 6:51 pm

Thracius Trueblade wrote:
Elvith wrote:I think that they can be pretty overpowered, but one server I used to play in had the DMs award level tokens to players who played through DM quests or had a great RP or something. They were also awarded for stuff like doiing some quests for your first time. That server required you to stop at level 10 until you got level tokens, so few made it past 20, but it gave incentive to keep using a character. (They also imposed a 90% xp penalty on level 20+ characters and made each quest give less xp each time you did it, so that at very high levels the only reliable way to get xp was to have DMs award it to you)

That's just a thought, I really wouldn't like seeing everyone as alevel 30 walking around.
Following that train of thought, why not allow levels over 20, but just not have any quests for people above level 20 at all. That way the only way they could gain experience would be through DM awards (and it's going to take a long time to get the 20,000 exp required for level 21 just through that).

Only allowing epic levels through DM award would allow exceptional players who through RP manage to develop their character into a real hero (or villian) that has a impact on the gameworld, whilst simultaneously stopping illiterate WoW kiddies with powerbuilt characters from simply grinding their way up to godhood.

Allowing the possibility of levelling up beyond 20 will encourage people to keep playing with older characters more often, rather than just re-rolling to a new character (which is what a lot of people seem to be doing at the moment). But if epic levels are allowed, they should be REALLY hard to get, in my opinion.

Hear those cries finding their way from the future through some time/space continuum distortion?

Hear their twisted song of despair!

"Favoritism!
Elitism!
Bias!
GIMME LVL 30 PLX!!!?!!"

oaknott · Post by **oaknott** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 6:55 pm

Thracius Trueblade wrote: Only allowing epic levels through DM award would allow exceptional players who through RP manage to develop their character into a real hero (or villian) that has a impact on the gameworld, whilst simultaneously stopping illiterate WoW kiddies with powerbuilt characters from simply grinding their way up to godhood.

it would also stop people who don't live in the right timezone from progressing beyond level 20 as they cant play when the DMs are on.

Either have epic levels or don't, theres no point messing around with half measures

StormRunner · Post by **StormRunner** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 7:01 pm

oaknott wrote:
Thracius Trueblade wrote: Only allowing epic levels through DM award would allow exceptional players who through RP manage to develop their character into a real hero (or villian) that has a impact on the gameworld, whilst simultaneously stopping illiterate WoW kiddies with powerbuilt characters from simply grinding their way up to godhood.
it would also stop people who don't live in the right timezone from progressing beyond level 20 as they cant play when the DMs are on.

Either have epic levels or don't, theresw no point messing around with half measures

The prophecy came true! Praise the holy prophet! Praise me, you ingrates!

On a more serious note, let's just wait with this discussion until we know exactly how the epic levels work this time around, mkay? Perhaps they're not as unbalancing to the PW as they were.

...

Who am I kidding?

Stormknife · Post by **Stormknife** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:47 pm

Perhaps they're not as unbalancing to the PW as they were.

That's about as likely as Seth being in favor of women's rights...

Post by **Vahene** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:58 pm

Stormknife wrote:
Perhaps they're not as unbalancing to the PW as they were.
That's about as likely as Seth being in favor of women's rights...

*chokes*

K

Maverick_to · Post by **Maverick_to** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:06 am

I'd say entirely no.
I have seen systems where no combat XP was granted to players above level X. Players still rise far above these levels through, *gasp* activity. DMs reward this behavior with... *gasp* XP.

Ok. so while it seems reasonable to give active players a reward, going above level 20 creates many issues. I would argue that once you make it too far past level 15, then some of the game balancing effects break down.

Since this is a generality, and really doesn't hold any worth. I will suggest that this community, provide into this thread, VERY specific arguments for or against.

Against Epic:
Save Vs *fill_in_the_blank* uses a 1d20 die. When a player has an average of 16 will/flex/fort, some of the more "creative" uses of offensive spells become useless, and you find that the majority of spells will be limited to a significantly smaller set of "typical" spells.

Post by **Vahene** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 1:14 pm

I have seen systems where no combat XP was granted to players
above level X. Players still rise far above these levels through, *gasp*
activity. DMs reward this behavior with... *gasp* XP.

Das 1 was almost like this.

You were capped at level 20, and you could and did very
often receive experience past level 20, but it didn't level you. You could
go fight something high level, which would still give you experience at
level 20 (Demon on the Mountain, as an example, a rather.. difficult little
high level thing that killed quite efficiently), whereas low level things like
beetles right outside the gate would give you nothing past a certain level
(I want to say level 5 or 6?)

Quite frankly, I prefer this to epic levels. It worked well the first time.

K