metagaming

[Tinuvhiell]

explain it to me, please.

[BeyondRedemption]

I've heard the term bandied about and from what I gather it is using out of character knowledge to influence in character behaviors such as number crunching for the right gear for a particular situation or basing your reaction to another character in which you share a conflict based solely on whether or not he shows up as effortless or overpowering.

I think it's just a snotty way of saying I'm better than you at RP but I'm jaded like that.

[Wyvern]

I understand it to be using knowledge that you the player knows, but your character could not, to gain an advantage for said character. An example would be me using my rogue to sneak into a private meeting, overhearing something, and then using the information he learned with another character who has nothing to do with the rogue. Where the water gets muddied, is that it is easy to come up with an RP excuse to justify it:

"Oh, I met this rogue in the tarvern last night. He got really drunk and he said that such-and-such said this, and did that."

Such a thing could happen, but between two of your own characters, it is bordering on metagaming.

[Grayle]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metagaming

[Stormknife]

The way I've always heard metagaming explained is using OOC knowledge of IC events/plans/whatever to gain an unfair advantage.

Using that Uber scythe because it's +2 keen and flaming burst over your +2 normal scythe would not be metagaming...you "know" that the Uber scythe is better.

But if I told someone OOC that my character has been friendly with them up until now just so he can kill them, and they then stop talking to my character and buffing every time he's around...they're metagaming. There's no reason for their character to stop talking to mine, and there's certainly no reason for their character to buff.

[Wyvern]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metagaming

I think she wanted everyone's individual opinions on what they think it is. Unless you wrote Wiki's entry on the subject, Matt?

[Tinuvhiell]

Hehhe I actually found this one to be more to my point.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metagaming ... g_games%29

But I would like to hear it from the mouths (fingers) of players here. Along with their opinion of it.

Is it bad, good? Can you avoid it all the time? Do you think it's ok?

[Grayle]

I think in this format, it's almost unavoidable.

In table top, it's much easier DM controlled and self-monitored. People are more willing to screw over some anonymous e-lifer to gain an advantage rather than thier friend sitting next to them.

The trick, as far as I can tell, is to avoid the mode of thought, all together. If that is too difficult, camoflague it well and contemplate consequences, circumstances, etc. Risk is often more than reward in the matter, especially concerning the effects it might have on your being respected as a player.

It's such an easy mistake to perform, too. Novice player or vet.

[broncoblitz]

Yeah one of the hardest things to do especially if you decide to play more than one character is to keep track of who should know what. You either need a fantastic memory or have great notes. I have neither.

The obvious solution is to play only one character. But hey all of us have done it at some point.

[Bottesini]

Like most things in gaming common sense is required. Many times metagaming is a very bad thing in general. However, there are some times that we do it to be more considerate, such as not taking a bunch of first level chars into the bugbear caves. Or even avoiding kill stealing for some characters is metagaming (I know mine is the eternal do gooder, but those doing the grind don't want me coming up and taking their XP which is a completely OOC thing that we as players care about).

[Dm Chicken Little]

see, i see it more as using the term metagaming is calling it by its stage name. i just call it for what it is, cheating.

[Tinuvhiell]

So, it can be good or bad.

Good = not slaughtering a level 1 brand new character with your level 6 nasty

Bad = logging in your level 20 "big brother" or whatever to pk that guy who just killed your newbie.

[obsoletenihilist]

Exactly. Metagaming works along the lines of self policing and not being afraid to accept your character just won't have things go their way constantly..

With metagaming you might never be intimidated by someone a few levels lower than you. Without it that level 1 bard might be able to make a level 10 character back down.

Even the good metagaming might not be so good, if that level 1 bard knows he's mouthing off and really does deserve a beatdown I don't see why in an immersive world you should hold back for the sake of levels.

Point and case, I don't go insult a drunk person with military or combat training and expect them to not beat the snot out of me because I'm not quite their equal.

[Tinuvhiell]

lovely gray subject that requires common sense Excellent.

I see your point. A level 1 being a jerk might deserve a beating. That brings in the "Roleplay" that should be applied before everything else.

I guess the simplest solution would be to play in-character all the time. Like Grayle says, immerse yourself and BE your character. *boggles*

[Grayle]

Meh...but also Be contemplative of your actions as a player. Good role-playing doesn't remove the player entirely from the equation.

Miscommunication, misinterpretation and manipulation are the greatest risks to a role-player. The best I have seen achieve amazing clarity of intent. They simplify the complex, yet still evoke emotion/detail/drive.

If too many people are complaining about actions you are taking, which might even be honest role-assumption choices, you are doing something wrong.