Restrictions on Multi-Classing?

[Minuvas]

Is it possible to put restrictions on multi-classing to prevent people from Meta-gaming and making builds that have nothing to do with how their character functions for RP reasons.

It seems that if someone is making "Uuber" builds, it is purely for a powergaming reason. I would feel more comfortable knowing that, players had DM approval for multiclassing other than just to gain an advantage over other players.


I've seen this growing trend, of people maximizing the abilities of their character - rather than focusing on the nitty-gritty of WHY would they have these abilities.


WHY would a Rogue have training in abilities offered only by Monks?

Why would a Druid have training as a monk? Monastery living seems quite different from Wilderness life.

I think this is a great way to enforce roleplay, and to prevent characters who have builds that are more roleplay (Yet frankly, aren't metagamed to compete with powergame builds) to be bullied by characters who may/may not be the best roleplayers, but are designed around maximizing ones METAGAME abilities.

Feedback?

[Stormknife]

If there's any sort of multiclassing restriction, I'd like to see it mirror tabletop.

Once a paladin levels as something other than a paladin, they can't get paladin levels anymore (I think paladin/dwarven defender is an allowed crossover, though). Druids and monks: same deal.

The alternative of banning certain combinations just turns into a game of whack-a-mole.

[UltimaBoB]

Well in NWN2 the 20 level cap combined with the way they de-frontloaded a lot of classes does tend to make a lot of pure builds on par with multis.

The Monk 1 dip for Druids is definitely something that will make you more powerful, yeah. But at least they aren't getting cleave and evasion lol

Cleric 1 dips are pretty uber though. Two high base saves + evasion and toughness or uncanny dodge. Heck, if a druid or bard take Cleric 1 and healing domain it will empower their own healing spells

Pally no longer has the saves on 1st level. But I guess warlock does, but still, not as good a 1 level dip.

No more dual wield at first for Rangers either.

I hear what you are saying though and I'm not really on topic - just saying that at least it isn't quite as bad as NWN1.

[Greensleeves]

Is it possible to put restrictions on multi-classing to prevent people from Meta-gaming and making builds that have nothing to do with how their character functions for RP reasons.

It seems that if someone is making "Uuber" builds, it is purely for a powergaming reason. I would feel more comfortable knowing that, players had DM approval for multiclassing other than just to gain an advantage over other players.


I've seen this growing trend, of people maximizing the abilities of their character - rather than focusing on the nitty-gritty of WHY would they have these abilities.


WHY would a Rogue have training in abilities offered only by Monks?

Why would a Druid have training as a monk? Monastery living seems quite different from Wilderness life.

I think this is a great way to enforce roleplay, and to prevent characters who have builds that are more roleplay (Yet frankly, aren't metagamed to compete with powergame builds) to be bullied by characters who may/may not be the best roleplayers, but are designed around maximizing ones METAGAME abilities.

Feedback?

Worrying about how someone else constructs their character is an even worse form of metagaming. The only thing that should be enforced is a "don't ask, don't tell" policy with respect to AC, XP, HP or anything else with an acronym....

[Vahene]

Worrying about how someone else constructs their character is an even worse form of metagaming. The only thing that should be enforced is a "don't ask, don't tell" policy with respect to AC, XP, HP or anything else with an acronym....

I have to agree with this.

I've played with people who created uber characters in Das1. Were they hard to kill in PvP, well, yes, but that also made it more challenging because these same people were awesome RPers. I have a sorceress who will end up 1 Cleric, 19 Sorcerer. I have another that is going to be an Arcane Trickster and REQUIRES multi-classing.. at 4 Rogue, 6 Wizard and 10 Arcane Trickster. I have two different classes as the base for my Arcane Trickster, should that PrC be thrown out of the window and forgotten about simply because some people might have a few problems dealing with the way others build their characters?

I'll be brutally honest with you, my sorceress is a powerbuild. I took specific domains to get specific feats. I did it for a reason, and those of you that are on my MSN list can ask me why. I'll tell you, but I can't think of a way to say it on the boards without getting my knuckles slapped by a DM or Moderator, so I'll keep it to myself.

Metagaming occurs when you have one character at level, let's say 4, as my rogue currently is, and another at level 20. You don't want to deal with the consequences of your actions with your low level character, so you bring in your high level character. DM's did deal with this in Das1 quite effectively.. they'll do it again, I'm sure, once the DM Client gets a swift kick in the behind and works.

Now because I've admitted my sorceress is a powerbuild, and though she does have RP reasons for me taking 1 level of Cleric (I would have prefered a monk level, but honestly, I couldn't figure out how to justify it with her particular storyline)... would you want her to be deleted? Because she might be considered 'uber' with the feats of Uncanny Dodge and Feint?

I'm playing devil's advocate, but I'm a bit touchy on this subject.

A lot of you people are worrying way too much about things like this.

If people want to have builds that are uber, I could care less.

I get the fact that some of you do care, but it really just isn't a big deal.

-K

[Minuvas]

I wouldn't be advocating the deleting of current chars, of course.

Though it seems some people are trying to finnagle around alignments, and other elements to create character combinations (LIke having lawful good alignment to play one class, then switching to Chaotic and Evil alignments to pick a new one).

Normally, I don't care what you do with your character(As per Greensleeves comment) - just when it effects my gameplay and others does it matter. Some people can pull it off, the rare and the few, it seems like a majority of people will boast about how they built their character, and how they will duel other characters (Arbitrarily with no regard to the actual character) to test out these "Uuber builds".

Doesn't seem like such a terrible suggest to kindly ask people to roleplay. If we wouldn't want a rule about it, perhaps people more generously consider class considerations other than - "oh this will give my character extra saves, more AC etc;".

[Greensleeves]

Though it seems some people are trying to finnagle around alignments, and other elements to create character combinations (LIke having lawful good alignment to play one class, then switching to Chaotic and Evil alignments to pick a new one).

I agree with this fully, but it's a problem that could be eliminated by making it very difficult to change your alignment.

[BeyondRedemption]

I'll be brutally honest with you, my sorceress is a powerbuild. I took specific domains to get specific feats. I did it for a reason, and those of you that are on my MSN list can ask me why. I'll tell you, but I can't think of a way to say it on the boards without getting my knuckles slapped by a DM or Moderator, so I'll keep it to myself.
-K

I find this comment somewhat disturbing. Unless I'm misunderstanding, if your build would get you reprimanded, isn't that a problem? Maybe you shouldn't be doing it?

[UltimaBoB]

Not that i necessarily advocate it, but there was a NWN1 RP server that had a level 20 cap. And they had a rule that said that by level 20 you had to have at least 4 levels in any class you take in order to avoid the 1 level dips - the thing they found to be the most egregious.

Such a rule might be worth considering as while it doesn't soleve everything, it is simple and consistent and according to those who played that server they like the environment better with it than without.

But it's just an idea to throw out there.

[BeyondRedemption]

I would find 3 reasonable enough.

[Zephis]

I Seriously can't believe this.

people should worry about their own characters and their own RP, not metagaming into other peoples and complain about the mechanics of their character.

Also sometimes the odd combinations are there for a reason.
Someone, say a rogue with monk levels might just be someone gifted at HtH combat, nothing more or less.

Yes certain combinations are practically impossible, Barbarian/Dwarven Defender shouldn't work mechanically, but yet I can see it work RP wise, the Barbarian reforming somewhat and becoming a champion and defender of his people etc.

Anyhow its christmass go do christmassy stuff.

*Pelts people with turkey and roast potatoes*

[BeyondRedemption]

*Pelts people with turkey and roast potatoes*

I do that on christmas, too!!!

[Zephis]

*Pelts people with turkey and roast potatoes*

I do that on christmas, too!!!

hehe good to know..

Anyhow.. really I think people should stop posting up threads every week complaining about this.
We've allready got the uber/underplayed thread, another complaining about muids somewhere and probably more.

Anyone coming here will see this forum as little more then a bitchfest combined with people powergaming via complain/nerfing anyone that is Odd/different/unique/better (they think) then their "normal" character.

I think its time the topic just got buried until such time as theirs an actual need to discuss it (Ie someone makes a build that kills god/Dm's)

[Minuvas]

Absolutely not.

I could care less if you have twenty different classes, if it makes sense.


I just think its just wrong to take classes specifically to make your character more powerful. I don't like that you would label this a "bitchfest", I've just stated an opinion - wanted to know what others think.

I wanted to get opinions, and debate this on a mature level so that we can come to a consensus. This way, people WHO are thinking about doing it understand that its not "Roleplay ethics" so to say, to just plug classes for no reason. Calling it a "Bitchfest" downplays the argument, to a great deal.

I think very hard when choosing my classes, often sacrificing my characters ability to function in combat vs monsters and characters in order to fit the Persona of my character. That is me, and thats fine. I'm not like everyone.

People who are good "Brawlers", still can't consider them on the Level of a Monk (A hand to hand combat specialist) a class that would spends hours honing their skill in the use of the fist. As compared to just wanting to be a good "Brawler", then why not take combat specialties in hand to hand bonuses? (Cause its easier to just Click "Monk" and not worry about it later, as opposed to using a feat?).

It seems counterproductive, to create characters for the sole person of being the "Strongest". This is a roleplay server , and I think its somewhat wrong for people to make it a stomping ground for their random powerbuilds, thats what PvP/Arena servers are for, I believe.

I think a Level restriction would make sense, atleast 3 or 4 levels in each-multicass to prevent powerbuilds.


I haven't even seen these thing in game, but just reading the OOC things people do to maintain certain builds is just silly - and it ruins others gamings. "Uuber" building makes for characters who create hostile environments, because they're always striving to compete with the next guy over his build.

This is my opinion and not a "bitchfest", if it was a "bitchfest", my tone and my wording would be a great deal different. However, I'm open to hearing other opinions on the matter.

Simply because some people don't want their Sorcerer/Paladin/Monk/Druid build shot down, by coming here and saying "Close the thread! Close the thread!" seems less productive than active discussion.

[Zephis]

Last thing I want to do on christmass is get into a war of words.
But since I’m waiting for turkey to digest before I hit the pudding and brandy butter..

I’m not labeling this in specific as a bitchfest, but it is ultimately what threads like this amount to, as people chime in with things they’ve seen that they don’t like.

Tbh I’m not even understanding why this is an issue, or even coming up. Right now the most powerful characters in general are straight (allmost) druids and clerics. Everyone else is second best to that. Maybe their should be restrictions on those classes then?

Also, I’d take a good brawler over a good “Martial Artist” anyday.
A good friend of mine in collage was a traveler “gypsie” you might call him.
Knew how to stand, knew how to throw punches and beat the stuffing out of a person in a fight, all from having been in lots of practice fights.
I’m fairly sure the guy would just about kill anyone other then a very very highly adept and highly trained “Martial Artist”. Who knew that a real world fight is very different from the almost ritualized things they do in training.

In the same vein a level 5 Fighter would probably knock a level 5 monk silly with his bare fists so I can see any character who has some fighting ability being able to take a few levels of monk without a problem.