request for some experienced role-player: RP guide

[pwdcrk]

AKA: how, what and when to roll !

hi,
i'm writing this because i'm encountering some difficulties on rp-ing since i am not an experienced role-player ... my greatest difficulty is to determine what roll but most of all "WHEN" i give you this episode as an example of my difficulties:

i was discussing with a guard ( moved by a DM ) and some other players about an episode and i was planning to try to "win" the discussion ( or at least get out without consequencies )using diplomacy skill so i tried to figure out how a scripted dialog would have use the skill roll and i started rolling after every sentence i was using to try to convince the guard i was not guilty but i was told that that was a too much extensive use of rolls and i understood that behavior can ruin the experience of other players.

so .... is there anyone who wants to write a small guide on the use of skill and dice rolls ? so who has less experience can read and learn ?

i have a lot of question about rolls for example do i have to roll targeting something or i have to do it every time like a general area roll ? and is there any difference if roll on a target or i roll on general area ?

well i hope that i made a picture of what kind of doubts are present in the mind of less experienced people and that out there there is someone willing to write a guide about that

otherwise i will have to learn by experience

[Wired]

In a typical DM-led situation, you would roll once against the NPC and the DM will determine the difficult check (DC) you must pass according to the situation. The DC may be based on the NPCs own stats and/or situational modifiers; in free-play it's probably the situation that's most relevant (what you say and in what context, how believable it is given the situation and who the NPC is, how pre-disposed they are to believe you; friendly/hostile/already suspicious & etc).

In a PnP style group, I treat players in turn and they must request an attempt/roll, but in free-play it fine to simply roll. I would keep in mind however that there is another person RPing on other side of the screen, and s/he is also trying to keep track of everything everybody else is saying, rolling & etc., so it's a kindness not to overwhelm them if text is reeling off the screen before they have a chance to react.

In a player-to-player situation, it is really up to the player whether your roll meets their DC; you can't force them to do/believe anything and can only roleplay your own PC. If you're doing it right, they may well play along. If you're trying to "win" against them, as opposed to play along together, you might want to rethink your approach for an enhanced experience.

Edit: There is a player-created thread here somewhere on RP. As soon as I have a chance to look it up, I'll link it.

[pwdcrk]

don't get me wrong i wasn't complaining
mine was just a way to learn as i noticed by myself that a player cannot simply roll everything or just keep rolling hoping in a lucky shot that's why i realized that a sort of guide can be useful for newbies ( like me ) who are willing to learn but encounters a lack of documentation sometimes

i will look for the player created thread to check if it says something about roll policies

[hannahcoldkiller]

mmmm....rolls

[Daimondheart]

Personally, I always wait until a roll is asked for or use them on my own for the sake of flavor. For example, say I was playing a bard and I was giving a performance. I might roll perform and use the outcome of the roll to determine my next emote. If it's high, my bard gives an outstanding performance. If it's low, a string might snap or something similar.

[DM Loki]

The thing to keep foremost in your mind, as Wired has already mentioned, is that there's always someone on the other end of the conversation. Try to avoid rolling after every sentence and instead focus on one roll per general idea or action. If you spend a few lines trying to convince someone to loan you some gold make a single check at the end. You can then wait for their opposed roll or reaction. Skill checks during adventuring is more free-form. Many characters like to RP a Spot check before opening a secret door. The section below has suggested DCs for such uses, but I've noticed most players still open the door even after failing their own DC

When rolling between PCs it's really up to the two of you to make a decision on how to roll. As far as general use goes, there are a few trends which have emerged. Most of them are based on the P&P ruleset or other experiences. Non-opposed rolls should either be rolled against the general area or some inanimate object. Targeted rolls often use the other PC or NPC as a target.

Non-Opposed Rolls
These are skills or checks that depend on the situation and not another PC or NPC to determine the outcome. This could be anything from a Strength check to searching an area.

What you roll depends on the type of activity. If it's something trainable it would be listed under skills, otherwise it would either be a stat check or saving throw. Stat checks are used for something that would normally be a skill, but is either untrained or not available as a skill selection. One example of this is Swimming, a strength-based check which doesn't exist in NWN2. Anything else would be a saving throw roll, and generally takes into account the ability of a person to get better at something with age. This includes diving out of danger's way (ref save), shrugging off poison (fort save), etc.

DC Examples From the SRD

• DC00: Very easy - Notice something large in plain sight (Spot)
• DC05: Easy - Climb a knotted rope (Climb)
• DC10: Average - Hear an approaching guard (Listen)
• DC15: Tough - Rig a wagon wheel to fall off (Disable Device)
• DC20: Challenging - Swim in stormy water (Swim)
• DC25: Formidable - Open an average lock (Open Lock)
• DC30: Heroic - Leap across a 30-foot chasm (Jump)
• DC40: Nearly impossible - Track a squad of orcs across hard ground after 24 hours of rainfall (Survival)

It also helps to put it in perspective within the D20 system.

• DC10: The general population (Ability score of 9-10) should have a 50/50 chance of succeeding at this roll.
• DC15: Harder to accomplish, 25% chance of success for a standard person.
• DC20: 5% chance for a normal person. Above-average natural abilities really start to show here
• DC25: Only an exceptional person (one who has a 20 in the relevant stat) or someone who's trained in a skill would be able to make the check.
• DC50: Defined in D&D as an Epic-level skill check. Someone would need an ability far in excess of what's achievable in a standard lifetime to make this roll.

Opposed Rolls
These are a bit tricker since it's a roll between 2 (or more) PCs or a DM. Most of them function like you would expect, with a few exceptions.

• Bluff --> Sense Motive
• Disguise --> Spot
• Hide --> Spot
• Move Silently --> Listen
• Sleight of Hand --> Spot

The major exceptions, and ones which seem very popular on Dasaria, are Intimidate and Diplomacy. Neither one of these was meant to be used against a PC, and as such were not designed with an opposed roll. Many characters have informally settled on a Will saving throw to show their resistance to such an effect. Another method is a direct opposed roll (Intimidate vs. Intimidate or Diplomacy vs. Diplomacy) to throw their threat or argument back in their own face. This can be exceptionally fun when trying to convince a crowd of people who they should follow.

[Alterity]

[*]DC50: Defined in D&D as an Epic-level skill check. Someone would need an ability far in excess of what's achievable in a standard lifetime to make this roll.[/list]

Hence Hyel's very long life time to make epic level lore checks!

[pwdcrk]

........ainst the general area or some inanimate object. Targeted rolls often use the other PC or NPC as a target.

Non-Opposed Rolls
These are skills or checks that depend on the situation and not another PC or NPC to determine the outcome. This could be anything from a Strength check to searching an area.

What you roll depends on the type of activity. If it's something trainable it would be listed under skills, otherwise it would either be a stat check or saving throw. Stat checks are used for something that would normally be a skill, but is either untrained or not available as a skill selection. One example of this is Swimming, a strength-based check which doesn't exist in NWN2. Anything else would be a saving throw roll, and generally takes into account the ability of a person to get better at something with age. This includes diving out of danger's way (ref save), shrugging off poison (fort save), etc.

DC Examples From the SRD

• DC00: Very easy - Notice something large in plain sight (Spot)
• DC05: Easy - Climb a knotted rope (Climb)
• DC10: Avera .........

Thank you that was exactly what i had in mind !

[DM Phoenix]

In a player-to-player situation, it is really up to the player whether your roll meets their DC; you can't force them to do/believe anything and can only roleplay your own PC. If you're doing it right, they may well play along. If you're trying to "win" against them, as opposed to play along together, you might want to rethink your approach for an enhanced experience.

Another reminder to try to RP and work together as two characters weaving a story together. Try not to use the dice as a crutch; if the interchange is compelling enough a roll often isn't even required. Some people may ask for you to roll a check and others may completely ignore your roll in favor of determining their reaction less mechanically.

There is no one right way but attempting to force someone into acting in the way you feel they should is most certainly the wrong way. Please respect the different ways other people handle opposition and don't allow an IC conflict to become an OOC conflict. Most importantly... have fun!

[Alterity]

In a player-to-player situation, it is really up to the player whether your roll meets their DC; you can't force them to do/believe anything and can only roleplay your own PC. If you're doing it right, they may well play along. If you're trying to "win" against them, as opposed to play along together, you might want to rethink your approach for an enhanced experience.

Another reminder to try to RP and work together as two characters weaving a story together. Try not to use the dice as a crutch; if the interchange is compelling enough a roll often isn't even required. Some people may ask for you to roll a check and others may completely ignore your roll in favor of determining their reaction less mechanically.

There is no one right way but attempting to force someone into acting in the way you feel they should is most certainly the wrong way. Please respect the different ways other people handle opposition and don't allow an IC conflict to become an OOC conflict. Most importantly... have fun!

Agreed. Sometimes rolls just don't make sense. I remember Peregry saying a while back something along the lines of...
"My Sorcerer comes from a Family that lived through the worst of the war, and as a Knight he has faced some of the most deadly enemies. He doesn't get intimidated, no matter what you end up rolling, because you just aren't as scary as a Dracolich or some other monstrosity that hes already faced"

You probably can't intimidate a lot of really powerful characters, even if their will is low. Firin has single handedly held off a dozen orcs trying to breach a gate, and has beat some of the more powerful warriors in duels. He might not have high will because his class really doesn't give will, but that doens't mean that a level 5 warlock with beguiling influence and high cha (around 15 intimidate) is going to scare him.

As Phoenix said, have fun, don't worry too much about dice rolls in favour of what makes sense. Another common example if bluff. In my opinion, if a character has *no way* of knowing you're lieing, there is little reason for them to suspect a bluff.

But mostly importantly! Have fun! Fun first, for everyone

[Peregrinus]

It also helps to put it in perspective within the D20 system.

• DC10: The general population (Ability score of 9-10) should have a 50/50 chance of succeeding at this roll.
• DC15: Harder to accomplish, 25% chance of success for a standard person.
• DC20: 5% chance for a normal person. Above-average natural abilities really start to show here
• DC25: Only an exceptional person (one who has a 20 in the relevant stat) or someone who's trained in a skill would be able to make the check.
• DC50: Defined in D&D as an Epic-level skill check. Someone would need an ability far in excess of what's achievable in a standard lifetime to make this roll.

A note on this, per PnP. DC10 is the general untrained population has a 50/50 chance of succeeding when under immediate pressure or danger or when there's an immediate negative penalty upon failure. Otherwise, these checks can generally be easily made by simply taking the appropriate amount of time to do it.

Taking 10

When your character is not being threatened or distracted, you may choose to take 10. Instead of rolling 1d20 for the skill check, calculate your result as if you had rolled a 10. For many routine tasks, taking 10 makes them automatically successful. Distractions or threats (such as combat) make it impossible for a character to take 10. In most cases, taking 10 is purely a safety measure —you know (or expect) that an average roll will succeed but fear that a poor roll might fail, so you elect to settle for the average roll (a 10). Taking 10 is especially useful in situations where a particularly high roll wouldn’t help.