General suggestions and observations

Vlaid · Post by **Vlaid** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 9:59 am

First of all, this is just a thread for people to drop their input, not to directly discuss it here. So please keep your replies concise and to the point, so it will be easy for DM's to view the information here.

1. The first issue I would like to comment on, is pickpocketing. Perhaps the thing I feel strongest about since joining Dasaria some week or two ago. I feel that pickpocketing is far too allowable to be abused, to be allowed in this game system. Someone may be crashing out, or afk a sec going to the bathroom...you can imagine the result if a pickpocket came alone.

However, that example is not really the main source of the problem. The main problem with the current incarnation of pickpocketing, is that it is far easier to accumulate a high pickpocket, for the sole purpose of griefing, than it is to have a high spot, for the purposes of playing your character. What I mean to say is, that pickpocketing is the easiest way for an outsider to come in, and abuse a system, and stay just within the server rules.

To expand on this point, I will use my experience with being pickpocketed. I had someone pickpocket me multiple times in front of the smith, and I never 'spotted' him, so I never knew who it was. A blind abuse that I never found out who did it. My second experience with pickpocketing, was later that same day. I caught the thief, and when he was trapped in a corner with me about to kill him, he logged off. My third experience with pickpocketing, later that same night, the person told me I didn't 'spot' them so it's metagaming to link the dissapearance of my items with them running into me and running off, and that they would report me for harassment. The individual was SO adamant, that I simply gave up and took the loss yet again.

My last point on the subject of pickpocketing is the options you have available for retribution. You either let them go, or kill them. Or try to coerce them into giving back what they stole, which they likely won't. So the person has stolen an item worth possibly several thousand gold, and you're only retribution you can place upon them is making them lose roughly 300 xp and gp, on average. It seems rather lopsided. The penalties for getting caught pick pocketing should outweigh the gains, making it risky, as all crime is supposed to be.....unless of course, you're good at it, not a level 1 griefer. Ie, a penalty to pick pocketing for characters below level x. As a possible solution.

The moral of the story is, pickpocket is more a tool for griefing, than for any kind of mechanic to increase the immersement and enjoyment of all. It is simply a cancerous tool that allows people who do not care about Dasaria, to come in and abuse it's players. Now, I realize that sounds very biased, and it is. But it's my opinion, and I want to share it.

2. The server is only what you make it. The server feels very OOC as of late, I have no idea if that is the goal feel that the DM team is aiming for or not, but people seem to be very OOC. People run around with weapons drawn constantly. People dry to murder people in the middle of town, in front of guards, hurling fire and arcane energy through the marketplace. All while all the guards watch on complacently(sp?). This bothers me. People should have the respect to simply avoid PVP confrontations in the town, until the DM client is fixed. Just curb certain activities within the city, until the DM's can appropriately respond via posessed guards. Without guards to enforce the laws, people are going insane with the stunts their pulling in plain view of the guards. Even killing people five feet in front of the guards.

3. Why all the h8? As I've browsed these forums for the last week or two, I've seen a lot of flaming, and angsty "look at my e-peen" posts. It's kinda disenheartening, to someone hoping to join a community that is willing to show respect to one another as valued players of server. I think it's only fair, no matter what the discussion is about, to at least show each other respect on the forums. At times, -some- of the posts I've seen remind me of something much like high-school drama. Stop the h8, leave the emotional baggage at the door and enjoy the game.

Please feel free to respond to these observations, but please don't reply to other replies in this thread, to keep it concise.

Dusty · Post by **Dusty** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 10:39 am

I don't mind pickpocketing too much. I mean, it's a bit aggrevating when you come back and some rogue's there sniggering while helping himself to all your valuables, but I can live with that.

It's only OOC cause I've not played in a while.

Love and peace man!

Deodeath · Post by **Deodeath** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 12:30 pm

I don't like pickpocketing, If when I kill someone they don't drop at least 1 of their most valuable items (the most expensive swords, items, armors, scrolls in their inventory and randomly selected by a roll or something.) and 2-3 lesser ones ( common scrolls, potions, etc.). Since I'm a warrior the only way I would seek vengeance is not by killing him once, but twice (definatly not 2x the same day unless the situation calls for it, or at least not within 2-3 hours of the first killing... also really depends on the value of what I lost)...

Or I could employ another pickpocket of higher-equal to level skill that of the thief (but not high enough that the thief would become a griefer because of my actions... making me one myself) to seek vengeance.

baby1111007 · Post by **baby1111007** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 2:17 pm

Keep in mind that we still dont have a working DM client that the staff can use to address both the pick pocketing and the OOC feel that is occuring. Trust me, as a vet, I am disgusted by some of the things I have witnessed and been victim to myself. And for the record, I play rogues (in the first campagin I was part of a group of rogues).

I wish to assure you that when the staff has the tools needed to deal with most of the problems you havelisted, you will see a change. And until then I must ask you to be patient and realise that you are not the only one feeling such fustration.

Zephis · Post by **Zephis** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:02 pm

As to PP, well set a timer on it, 6 seconds or so.

Don't know about the OOCness, don't want to sound jerky but i don't notice it in the EU time zone, but that might be because theirs less players at that time.

As for the forums...
Well seems to happen.
Happened in every forum I've been on... people invest alot in their chars time and effort so it does tend to turn a bit funny when people say something someone else doesn't like.

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:13 pm

It was a problem during the first campaign and it will be a problem during this one until we can get in game properly. As far as I am concerned, grief pick pocketers are kill on sight IC. Order them to leave the area once you kill them for 1 HOUR RL. If they fail to comply, they are in breach of the server rules. Report them to me and I will personally clean their inventory and leave a message in there explaining the error of their ways.

Vlaid · Post by **Vlaid** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:13 pm

[quote="baby1111007"]Keep in mind that we still dont have a working DM client that the staff can use to address both the pick pocketing and the OOC feel that is occuring. Trust me, as a vet, I am disgusted by some of the things I have witnessed and been victim to myself. And for the record, I play rogues (in the first campagin I was part of a group of rogues).

[quote]

If the current situation is that because of the lack of DM client, PP is going rampant, it makes sense that it should be disabled until such time as the DM's can properly police it. However, I see no real reason to keep PP in the game, I've looked at the pro's and cons for it. The biggest con, is that it is extremely easy to abuse, leaving the players vulnerable to anyone who wants to make a pickpocket just for griefing. DM's can do little about it, because in many, and most cases, any griefer would come on in the wee hours, when there isn't a DM around to posess a guard(when a time when even that is possible).

So I challenge anyone that beleives pickpocketing adds to the game, to give a pro to counter it's ease of being abused. "It adds to realism." is not an acceptable answer, because that same point would be grounds for adding perma death to the game.

Mon-da-oth · Post by **Mon-da-oth** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:17 pm

I decided not to use the game mechanics when it comes to my character doing picking pockets. I just RP it out to avoid any accusations of griefing or other hassles. This seems to be working ok so far. Of course the ones that are willing to working it out in RP proably wouldn't mind my pick pocketing them.

Grayle · Post by **Grayle** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:27 pm

I must admit, the pick-pocketting is extremely bad after a server crash, when there are twenty people just popping up in the Mistyvale.

Jonny · Post by **Jonny** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:33 pm

I played a rouge in Dasaria 1 and here are the positive impacts it had on my gaming experience.

Pick Pocketing a player can build to more RP. Example: I stole a Darkenwood Bow (rare magical Long Bow) from one character and sold it to a friend of the character it belonged too. The character that aquired the bow for a cheap price showed it to his friend. "Hey that looks just like my bow..........wait a minute." Then, I ran off before they gave chase. I confronted later that evening, and enjoyed the RP.

Once I tried to pick pocket an enemy during an event. I was supposed to scout ahead, but my character couldn't resist the urge. The attempt was detected and the alarm was sounded. We had a hard fight after that.

Another time, I was playing an authority figure (redboot). A crafty rouge (Judas) decied to steal my companions helmet and taunt us with it. We chased him, engaged in a little PvP, and laughed our butts off.

My point, an innocent pick pocket attempt can foster a larger RP event. The abuse of PP is unfortunate. I found it to be a fun way of creating some RP on a boring night.

baby1111007 · Post by **baby1111007** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:42 pm

That is the issue jonny, while you and I both played fun rogues who kept in mind that the game was NOT our personal playground and tried to make it fun for others, some of the ones we have in game now are at best borderline griefers. You all knew Rum and Drek sat there pick pocketing each other for hours and laughing about it (esp when we rendered expensive items worthless). The only other people Rum PP were known griefers, and I must say it was great standing there and pickpocketing the rogues that pickpocketed my friends, espicially when I managed to get a better weapon than the one my friends lost

The issue is coming up because the PP that is happening now is not being done in a fun manner at all. For the large part it is being done just so a few can get their jollies off. Further more, if I catch someone PP me and they log off to avoid punishment, their name goes on "THE LIST". Niles can tell you about "THE LIST"

Greyshore · Post by **Greyshore** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 4:00 pm

The list...sounds deadly. xD

The only player who ever tried to steal from my char didn't take any items...I suspect because he was not able to or maybe for the sake of RP and for non-pvp. It is strange that he ran off right after though, and I didn't saw him again...though there is an active member here with the same name. :p

Post by **Jay Four** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 4:14 pm

I got killed by a monster? Builders are out of touch. Area sucks.
A chest I can't open? Bad design.
I lost in PvP... thats an exploit
Some other person is looting MY chest.... cheating, probably.
Some guy got there first and is doing MY quest.... exploit.
I lost an item... you better believe thats an exploit.

I like pickpocketing.

People get way to complacent and way too attached to their items. They demand every form of risk be removed. Then when it is removed, they stand around bored. Sure am glad we have nothing to worry about / do!

Dusty · Post by **Dusty** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 4:14 pm

Deodeath wrote:Since I'm a warrior the only way I would seek vengeance is not by killing him once, but twice (definatly not 2x the same day unless the situation calls for it, or at least not within 2-3 hours of the first killing... also really depends on the value of what I lost...

That's called griefing and it makes no RP sense anyway.

The Rules wrote:2. If you lose a PVP confrontation you are obliged to leave the area the fight occured in for a short period of time. As a general rule, there is to be no repeated aggression from either part for the span of 1 real-time hour after a pvp kill.

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 4:20 pm

I like pickpocketing too, J4, and I believe it has a place but currently it is a mechanic being used for griefing plain and simple.

Something sort of restriction like being limited to pickpocketing a particular target x times/day might be feasible. Not sure, I will give it some thought.