Are you guys concened about some of the subraces?

BeyondRedemption · Post by **BeyondRedemption** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:56 pm

I dunno, if folks really want to RP an underdark character why should being more powerful matter? I still say strip out all the bonuses so the differences are cosmetic only.

A Wandering Monk · Post by **A Wandering Monk** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:58 pm

My suggestion was to make level loss automatic at death above ecl level. Also the 2da does have a hard xp cap at the max for a deep gnome to hit lvl 20, so there is no cushion for that subrace. Others do have a cushion but the automatic level loss would make a buffer meaningless.

Stormknife · Post by **Stormknife** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:00 pm

And then if you die once you're delevelled to 19...even as an ECL race, that's not so cool. Regardless, enhanced death penalties are just going to encourage people to make their ECL builds even more difficult to kill.

'Sides, you said it yourself in another thread: if ECL races can reach 20, there's no reason not to choose them. Even if the highest level an ECL can regularly maintain is level 19, that's still level 19 and possibly quite abuseable in some cases. I can think of one or two off the top of my head, although they're probably not Really Big Deals.

A Wandering Monk · Post by **A Wandering Monk** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:05 pm

I would institute the death penalty starting at the ecl lvl, not lvl 20. If a deep gnome dies at lvl 18, he is back to lvl 17. This whole process makes it almost impossible for the ecl race to stay above his ecl level unless he is careful and an extremely good rper. If he is a hated outlaw, it will be impossible to stay above his ecl. Like I said before this seems like exactly what the lvl cappers want but allows a player at least an opportunity to advance past his ecl.

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:06 pm

And I stand by that statement still. I am just trying to think of viable alternatives if the decision is to not place an xp cap.

Stormknife · Post by **Stormknife** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:10 pm

Swiss army gnomes for everyone...heh.

Greensleeves · Post by **Greensleeves** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:10 pm

Wyvern wrote:Let me toss this random idea out there. Assuming there is no xp level cap, what about a death penalty that factors in the ECL adjustment as a multiplier to calculate said penalty (whether it is gold or xp).

So if a Human gets a penalty of x gold and y xp, then a Drow with an ECL of 2 would get a penalty of (x * 2) gold and (y*2) xp. Also toss in the possibility of level loss if you drop below a level threshold.

I stress this just a random idea.

Makes sense to me. How would level loss work though? Would you be allowed to go through the entire level-up procedure again when you earned back the exp? Or would it just restore you to the level you were at, with the level-up choices you had previously made?

Eowade · Post by **Eowade** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:13 pm

Wasn't there something implemented where if you drop so many xp below your level you suddenly start taking penalties like you are fatigued -15% stats or am I thinking of some other game.

Edit. NM I think that was ddo

Greensleeves · Post by **Greensleeves** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:13 pm

BeyondRedemption wrote:I dunno, if folks really want to RP an underdark character why should being more powerful matter? I still say strip out all the bonuses so the differences are cosmetic only.

This is another sane suggestion that has been made many times, and one that I support, to a certain extent.

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:13 pm

It would mean you had to re-obtain the xp. If you were 1000 xp over what is required to get to level 19, but were hit with a 2,000 xp penalty, you would lose your 19th level, and would need 1000 xp to regain your level.

Stormknife · Post by **Stormknife** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:14 pm

Mebbe you're thinking of negative levels? Each one you get is something like -1 attack bonus, -1 to all skill checks, and lose 1 spell from one of your highest spell slots.

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:17 pm

You literally would lose 1 level. If you were 19th, you would become 18th and have all of the numbers associated with an 18th level character and would lose the benefits gained at 19th.

lockethrowsknives · Post by **lockethrowsknives** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:18 pm

Combine the exaggerated XP loss with EoS status for Drow and Duergar and paranoid/negative discussion reactions from the majority of NPCs to the rest and I think we might have a nice solution. Might need something a little extra for Deep Gnomes though, come to think of it.

BeyondRedemption · Post by **BeyondRedemption** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:18 pm

Well, based on a discussion in the IRC channel, it seems it would be possible to add "supernatural effects" that would effectively strip most of the advantages away from the ECL races. They would function like diseases or ability drains and be persistent from the time of login. It could handle damping stats and spell resistance with only things like the once per day darkness spell being unaffected. There are plenty of ways to justify this with the right background including "their power is drained being so far from the underdark" or "the magnus order has been experimenting with powerful sorceries to diminish the threat from outsiders".

Stormknife · Post by **Stormknife** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:20 pm

Yeah, I know...my last post was to Eowade. Should've hit the quote button.

I somehow suspect the main purpose it's going to end up being used for is to swap out choices made at level 20, though. It may as well read "Earn 2000/3000 experience, change some of your spells up" or "Change a feat."