Are you guys concened about some of the subraces?

[Eowade]

So far all 4 characters of mine have been human. That was not intentional though just coincidence.

[Tyrande]

A little more commentary as to why those might be relevant here is in order.

I thought if the other large NWN server think the races are balanced this way, it might be balanced and acceptable here in terms of power.

[BeyondRedemption]

A little more commentary as to why those might be relevant here is in order.

I thought if the other large NWN server think the races are balanced this way, it might be balanced and acceptable here in terms of power.

Something will be happening to these races to make them less attractive.

Posting ideas that don't even pretend to accomplish that doesn't help find a palatable solution. I guarantee you that not a single DM is going to see that another server thinks the races are balanced and have a switch flip and say "Well gee, we don't have to change a thing then do we?"

[Tyrande]

I have a human, a sun elf, an assamir, and

a broken sun elf that needs relevelling once the DM client is fixed. i.e. missing a feat (alertness) after level up.

[baby1111007]

I opsted my ideas on this but it seems to have been ignored by everyone as it does not involve any nerfs. Even if the Dark Races are nerfed to uselessness as some want to see happen the number of humans is unlikely to increase all that much. You would just see more elves, halflings. dwarves and halforcs. There is already a large number of these races that I see in comparison to humans.

I don't see races as a huge problem. If more humans are wanted then give reasons for humans to be played over something else redress the perciefed balance issues by giving human only items and quests and so on. Make vendors that are rabid xenophobes who will sell and buy only from humans.

Make some races EOS sush as the drow if there are still too many. I still see more half-orcs than I see drow now. How do the people of Cear feel about half-breeds? What about dwarves, elve and halflings are they accepted? Maybe only Ram will buy and sell to them or the Ironback smithy will only deal with humans and dwarves.

How man here play a himan character as their primary? How many have no non-human characters at all?

I have to ask if you bothered reading the Background sections. If you did you may have answered your own question. The Vrok and Shai tribes were primarily orc tribes that were respectfully allied with the varanites and dasarian kingdoms, so yes half orcs became accepted.

The Flamefist clan was a dwarf clan that figured in nicely with the campaign, and there were many dwarf characters that played important roles in the first campaign.

The Rian elves were allied with the Dasarians for the longest time and withdrew. They are now re-emerging to see what happens with this new Empire. So again elves and half elves were already a central part to the campaign.

Quit seeing this all as player centralized and start looking at the bigger picture. The staff is trying to allow these races in the game, without having the place turn into a zoo of drow, dark gnomes and tieflings. Especially since the majority of taking these races do not seem to be RPing these races and just taking them for the numbers.

For the record, I do play a human, my next character will be a woodelf, and then I plan on making a tiefling. And I will play the tiefling no matter what action is taken be it level cap or nerf or EoS status.

[Tyrande]

A little more commentary as to why those might be relevant here is in order.

I thought if the other large NWN server think the races are balanced this way, it might be balanced and acceptable here in terms of power.

Something will be happening to these races to make them less attractive.

Posting ideas that don't even pretend to accomplish that doesn't help find a palatable solution. I guarantee you that not a single DM is going to see that another server thinks the races are balanced and have a switch flip and say "Well gee, we don't have to change a thing then do we?"

If you read my comments carefully, you will see that the ECL races are nerfed severely. SR is only 5 + 1/lvl, +3 lvl adjustment and they get Attacks of opportunities from all attackers, and blindness, -2 BAB and -2 to all saves for one round for example for drow while exposed to bright light... that means when someone has a light on their head passes by.

I would, however, opposed to the idea that a level cap be put in place. Why would they not allowed to reach level 20?

[happydictates]

I opsted my ideas on this but it seems to have been ignored by everyone as it does not involve any nerfs. Even if the Dark Races are nerfed to uselessness as some want to see happen the number of humans is unlikely to increase all that much. You would just see more elves, halflings. dwarves and halforcs. There is already a large number of these races that I see in comparison to humans.

I don't see races as a huge problem. If more humans are wanted then give reasons for humans to be played over something else redress the perciefed balance issues by giving human only items and quests and so on. Make vendors that are rabid xenophobes who will sell and buy only from humans.

Make some races EOS sush as the drow if there are still too many. I still see more half-orcs than I see drow now. How do the people of Cear feel about half-breeds? What about dwarves, elve and halflings are they accepted? Maybe only Ram will buy and sell to them or the Ironback smithy will only deal with humans and dwarves.

How man here play a himan character as their primary? How many have no non-human characters at all?

i love this idea. seems to me that the guards are extremely excepting of all races, which seems to go against the ideals of the empire, which seems to be all about human elitism. id hate to see the races' stats nerfed, as they are meant to be more powerful than the non-ECL. but according to the story it appears they should be shunned or outcast.

[BeyondRedemption]

I thought if the other large NWN server think the races are balanced this way, it might be balanced and acceptable here in terms of power.

Something will be happening to these races to make them less attractive.

Posting ideas that don't even pretend to accomplish that doesn't help find a palatable solution. I guarantee you that not a single DM is going to see that another server thinks the races are balanced and have a switch flip and say "Well gee, we don't have to change a thing then do we?"

If you read my comments carefully, you will see that the ECL races are nerfed severely. SR is only 5 + 1/lvl, +3 lvl adjustment and they get Attacks of opportunities from all attackers, and blindness, -2 BAB and -2 to all saves for one round for example for drow while exposed to bright light... that means when someone has a light on their head passes by.

I would, however, opposed to the idea that a level cap be put in place. Why would they not allowed to reach level 20?

Slight reduction to SR and level adjustments really don't nerf things much in the scheme of things. Remember, we are having this discussion in the first place because level adjustments are viewed to be not enough to balance things. Blindness is nice but frankly blindness is something they should be affected by no matter what the outcome. I mean, they are drow...in the light.

To answer your question as to why they shouldn't reach 20, I suggest reading the other 20 pages. Plenty of compelling arguments have been made.

[Maankin]

Then maybe give them a -4 or -6 penalty to constitution.
I think a level 20 drow with 40hp isn't that much of a threat.
I'd prefer that to a level cap.

[ChikenKannon]

I believe it's already been mentioned that the Blindness doesn't actually work.

[Maankin]

edited away

[Kartina]

[Inziladun]

I say just have the ECL races be shunned like they are supposed to be. Powergamers will probably be turned off and Role-players can still play their ECL characters without having their character builds be rendered useless and have to restart. I say that in itself is an effective way to limit the Drow population, maybe even get rid of some of the non-roleplayer population as well.

I don't really see a need to nerf ECL races. There will always be powerbuilds, and this is a role-playing server and not a PvP one. I say, quit worrying about balance issues and just implement role-playing solutions.

[Tyrande]

To answer your question as to why they shouldn't reach 20, I suggest reading the other 20 pages. Plenty of compelling arguments have been made.

I have read all of the 20 pages. I do not accept level adjustment = level cap. This is my personal opinion only, however. The reason I said this is because level 18 ECL is much < level 20 human, considering that they took the same feats, skills and stat increases.

If the idea is to reduce the population of the dark races, why not just disallow them on character creation now? That way the only dark races are what we have now. Also, have the dark race characters created required a bio, and roleplay them accordingly. If not, the guardsmen and guardswomen know where to find them.

Slight reduction to SR and level adjustments really don't nerf things much in the scheme of things. Remember, we are having this discussion in the first place because level adjustments are viewed to be not enough to balance things. Blindness is nice but frankly blindness is something they should be affected by no matter what the outcome. I mean, they are drow...in the light.

- The reason for the 5 + 1/level SR is that even a normal human caster with the spell penetration feats will be able to penetrate their spell resistance on every roll. This makes the Spell Resistance permanent spell seems much less desirable.

- Level adjustment may not be enough, but have you actually play a +2 or +3 adjustment character? After I played a drow, I can tell you, it is not only painful, but very painful.

- Blindness should not be permanent, why? because there are shadows under the roof; there are times when the sun is covered by the clouds; and there are times at night where there is no light at all. Also, there is the chance of eclipse.

- You didn't mention the reduction in BABs and saves and AOO? Those are actually the same as taken 2 levels away if they're playing melee.

EDIT: correct spelling mistakes.

[Sunraven]

Yes I have readsome of the history and background but there is a difference between working along side a group of orcs and accepting halfbreeds. From what I have read the Varanites do not seem all that accepting and keen on non humans.

You mention the Dwarf clan from the first campaign well Dasaria is gona and taken over by the Varanites do the same attitudes still apply towards Dwarves by the general population and those in power?

I still maintain that the best way to get more human characters is through carrots give them access to better weapons say +4 or +5 for example, casters get better robes with extra spell slots that are human only.

Where did I say anywhere that I was seeeing this as player centralised? I was offering a different solution to the problem that some percieve that would involve roleplaying and some incentives rather than nerfing.