Equality among classes

[Bracer2]

lo thar folks Bracer ere, just wanted to voice my opinion on something , since it seems as though more game is played on the forum then in the game. Let me start by saying i agree that recipes should not be posted on tavern doors, however, my problem is that why are crafters treated differently?....?? Example, a fighter does not have to take up appretiships, and spend hundreds of hours of real life time to achieve his very powerfull skills. it only seems fair that if a crafter chr must go through so much to realize himself, then why cant all classes be of the same mold?... no pun intended. ive read all the posts of all these orders and heard all about how IG these recipes can be discussed. Problem is they dont play anymore. for someone like me who works 50 hours a week, the basic fact of the matter is, im not allowed to have a functional crafter chr. at least make it equally as difficult, for all chr classes to reach there desired abilities. from where i sit, i see no difference, and its just not consistant with any form of D&D ive ever played. If it takes 8 months to fully, or at least partially develope a crafter, then the same needs to be said for all chr classes, anything else is not fair......Bwahahaha!

[Vahene]

I agree with you.

Dasaria 1 had a nice system where you could determine the recipe in game. For example, if you needed to use the Alchemist's Bench, you placed a fire beetle eye in the bench, and it told you what recipes were available - something like that would be a boon for Dasaria 2, I think. Especially since there are people, such as you and I, who are too busy in real life to waste time 'apprenticing' to another character who may or may not be on, or even playing any longer.

Guilds are nice, and that's fine - but I don't agree with the reasoning that's been given to keep the recipes a secret. There's one or two groups that have a monopoly on it and quite frankly, I don't think its fair to the rest of us.

I'd like a good explanation besides "that's just the way it is" or "deal with it" as to why these recipes can't be shared.

Everytime I've asked, I've been rudely slammed for it.

K

[Nathen Arnes]

Not that I know much about it but maybe alot or most of the recipes could be shared but still have a handful or so that are kept secret.... so you could make a functional crafter on your own, but still need to be taught by a "master" to be able to do a few really advanced things. *shrugs* Best of both worlds?

[Vahene]

I don't think there's a good reason to keep any of them secret.

Either your character can do it and has the required skills and feats, or they don't.

The mystery behind it - honestly, it just doesn't wash to keep it secret.

K

[hannahcoldkiller]

yeah, I'm leaning toward bracer on this one too. When the people who found the recipes on their own through endless hours of experimentation, it was a boon to the server and these players work was finally rewarded (I hope). But now those people haven't been around to share their knowledge, which is kind of a waste.

I think hints placed in books, randomly throughout the loot pools on a limited basis would add a level of interest and motivation for people to continue to replay the quests. I think it would add to game also that those findings be kept at least partially secret where every player didn't have a crafter alt to outfit all his other ones with super gear and off balance the game.

[Shorn]

Fraid I have to comment on this as well. No insult intended to our ONE AND ONLY REMAINING CRAFTER WHO CAN DO ENCHANTS. Max simply doesnt have time, hes bogged down with work, and thats understandable.

But I really want to have my sword enchanted, and it has to be lightning, for storyline purposes.

Now that aside, Ive known +2 and +3 for a very long time, but didnt reveal it so that the OD could do their thing, and whatnot. But they are gone, and simply put, Ive spent time with Bracer trying multiple combinations of many things, and simply put, we have absolutely no sets of guidelines to go on.

Does it take a roll?
What spell?
What items?
What level of flask or stone, if any? (granted one can reasonably assume, but one might also be wrong since no logic seems to be followed)

Ok, assuming we randomly happen accross such.

I tried to get a sword made from Max the other day, and he did decide that he had time for a enchanted weapon, but could only do acid and cold. Now ive got a pretty good stock on my guy, from questing for 2 weeks, and I offered him anything he needed, and said he could request multiple items so that I wouldnt know what he needed.....apparently, its not that simple, according to him.....so that adds in ANOTHER factor that im somehow missing, and dont have the slightest clue what to do.

So we can continue beating our heads against the wall trying one greater, one gem, one item, and one spell, and then move on to god knows how many combinations.....please, does anyone else see how much of a waste of time this is?

I have no desire to be a crafter myself, I just want a single crafter who is actually active and able to do things, and some way to get it in a amount of time that doesnt make reasonable look like the diameter of a strand of DNA in comparison....


Thats my peice, no offense intended to anyone.

[Vahene]

So we can continue beating our heads against the wall trying one greater, one gem, one item, and one spell, and then move on to god knows how many combinations.....please, does anyone else see how much of a waste of time this is?

Yeah, I totally agree.

Even if its just an NPC that charges you an obscene amount of money to reveal secrets to you, or to enchant/whatever for you him/herself... I just want some way to be able to do it in game without having to try to break down the walls of the secrets of the Masonic Lodge of the Illuminati that seems to have appeared out of no where since Dasaria 2 has been created. I also note the utter silence on the other side of this issue.

K

[Rob]

This is how I see it. Characters who spend their time in dungeons are rewarded with XP and loot. Characters who spend their time in front of crafting tables are rewarded with recipes. If you don't want to spend the time working out the recipes, don't. Your character is still viable without a 1d4 fire sword.

[Shorn]

Its not that time is involved...its the amount of time...the ridiculously long amount of time spent on it, without any progress whatsoever to punctuate the long hours of repeatedly trying combinations, combinations which are potentially unlimited, since there are no guidelines whatsoever.

However, with all due respect to those involved, I have a pretty good grasp of server politics, and I would like to inform you that the decision has been made....so were once again beating our heads against a wall .

[hannahcoldkiller]

I think equality is the wrong argument to make. I think adding certain quest like elements to the process giving people clues would add to the replay ability of the server and add greater enjoyment to people who play all the time and are looking for new ways to keep the game fresh. I think it could be done as a sort of logic puzzle that eliminates certain possibilities and gives clues as to others. Perhaps an absent minded alchemist who lost his notebook with pages scattered all over the place, it could be a multilevel persistent quest which requires particular skills to complete.

[Vahene]

Dasaria 1 had ingredients scattered all over the place - from herbs you could pick, to items like eyes and whatnot that you could get off of monsters themselves - that way the harder to create items were based on 'if you could get it'. Why couldn't we go back to something like that? Given, we had a separate server I believe for crafting specifically - and I'm not asking for that because god knows, I know how much servers cost.. but Shorn's right. So's Hannah. Those that do know the recipes ARE NOT PLAYING. They aren't even checking the boards for all we know.

I'd love to have a character apprentice to someone - but as it was pointed out, only one person is crafting on a regular basis these days. Sorry, but I go to school, I work - I just don't have the time to spend 10+ hours in game to figure out a bunch of crafting recipes. Yeah, I could craft something that might be very beneficial for hunting my character, but heck if I know how to do it. I'd love to be able to craft arrows - but everyone's keeping the recipes so freaking secret you'd think they were part of the holy grail.

K

Edit - Just as an additional note, please don't think of my posts as being 'harsh' or 'negative' ... I'm just trying to stir up discussion - and to be honest, if it stays the way it is .. it stays the way it is, but I preferred Das1's system. I think that's all I've been trying to say. Please don't anyone take offense to my posts.

[Rob]

Dasaria 1 had ingredients scattered all over the place - from herbs you could pick, to items like eyes and whatnot that you could get off of monsters themselves - that way the harder to create items were based on 'if you could get it'. Why couldn't we go back to something like that? Given, we had a separate server I believe for crafting specifically - and I'm not asking for that because god knows, I know how much servers cost.. but Shorn's right. So's Hannah. Those that do know the recipes ARE NOT PLAYING. They aren't even checking the boards for all we know.

Dasaria 1's crafting system was pretty flawed. The resource locations were static and their quantity infinite. You just had to wait for the respawn. The crafting stations told you exactly how to make every item. All you did was go to the resource location and collect as many resources as you could carry. Then you placed the resources on the crafting stations and produced item after item, increasing your skill until the item production became trivial. In the process, you created dozens of items. One which you could use. The rest couldn't even be sold. The leftovers ended up in the community box with the dozens other items that nobody wanted. The end result was that you could find almost any crafted item you wanted just by checking the community box. In other words, crafted items were pretty worthless.

I spent two hours in game with Max and Bodok tonight. Both of them are crafters. Shorn saw Max the other day. So, the people who know the recipes ARE PLAYING. These guys play when they can, they have school, work and real life commitments just like everybody else.

I'd love to have a character apprentice to someone - but as it was pointed out, only one person is crafting on a regular basis these days. Sorry, but I go to school, I work - I just don't have the time to spend 10+ hours in game to figure out a bunch of crafting recipes. Yeah, I could craft something that might be very beneficial for hunting my character, but heck if I know how to do it. I'd love to be able to craft arrows - but everyone's keeping the recipes so freaking secret you'd think they were part of the holy grail.

The arrow recipe is so freakin' secret, it's given in the arrow quiver's description!

Arrows suitable for immediate use or for modification by a skilled artisan. For immediate use, active the quiver to remove the arrows. For use in crafting, leave the arrows in the quiver. Materials Required: 2 perfected alchemical agents.

If it uses a "mold", the recipe is included in the description.

[Nathen Arnes]

Vahene, a long time ago I played on a server with a crafting system quite like that. The best thing about it was that even being a brand new newbie to the server you could be crafting little piddly things in just a few hours. Which was just fun. You didn't need some hidden knowledge or a character with money or the ability to buy everything neccesary to experiment or anything. Lots of fun, especially for people who don't or can't devote ALL their time to playing or leveling. Though I can see how crafting would be quite a bit less valuable in that case. I think there should be some challenge to it.

In Das 2 I, personally, haven't given crafting any mind. So far it has seemed to over my head, and ability, to have even interested me much. I like hannah's idea of putting them in random books or notes in the game to find... I think that'd give some of the less hardcore players a chance to even feel they could dabble in it. And make it more fun, involving everyone to search and find and sell these recipes (or clues). Though I think the most hardworking should be able keep some secrets. I think it'd be good that the more advanced craftings would need to be more challenging to figure out (through rp or something).

Just some ideas, mostly just the woes of a hopeless soloist.

[Vahene]

As I said in my edit..

Edit - Just as an additional note, please don't think of my posts as being 'harsh' or 'negative' ... I'm just trying to stir up discussion - and to be honest, if it stays the way it is .. it stays the way it is, but I preferred Das1's system. I think that's all I've been trying to say. Please don't anyone take offense to my posts.

No need to get hysterical. I'm just commenting. I didn't mean to come off as a witch.

Don't take offense for something that isn't there.

K

[Rob]

You can't really call someone hysterical and not come off as a witch. You wanted to stir up discussion. You got a discussion, not hysterics.