Drow/Tieflings and Dasaria

OOC discussions directly related to Dasaria.
Mensha Khaine
Dasarian Hero
Posts: 715
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:04 am

Drow/Tieflings and Dasaria

Post by Mensha Khaine »

For those that are new to Das or even new to D&D, here is a ruff outline as to what most old players will expect a drow to be like. This does not mean you can't play a good drow like Drizzt, but it should atleast give you an understanding of how other races, and those of the same race may interact with your character IC.

This is often a hot topic as people are rather passionate and dedicated to this race. Some rather Nerdy types can even be found takling in drow :)

"The personality of the Drow is a product of both nature and nurture. Since the Drow were banished to the Underdark and embarked on a fiercely and lethally competitive life style thousands of years and countless generations of Drow have passed. Those Drow who were most ruthless and aggressive survived to have children, and to pass on these traits.

The vicious nature of the Drow is partly a result of this selective breeding. The vast majority of Drow no longer have the capacity to empathise with other people, and are totally unable to form what surfacers would call a conscience. They truly do not care about anyone but themselves. Their brains are physically different; they have not inherited the brain paths and patterns that allow this to happen. Those few children who are born with this ability rarely survive to adulthood, and if they reach adulthood they almost always face being sacrificed on the bloodstained alters of Lolth or fleeing to live alone. Either way, they do not pass their abilities to a new generation.

The lethal competitiveness and utter lack of love or care in a Drow’s upbringing adds to this lack of empathy. Those who show signs of "weakness": - those who reject treachery and ruthless ambition, who show affection or caring for others, or who question the dogma of success at any price are rapidly weeded out. A Drow's entire childhood and adolescence is a training in treachery, and ambition. They are taught to feel pleasure in the pain of others.

Drow are supremely arrogant, highly ambitious and utterly ruthless. Almost all of them delight in inflicting pain and suffering for its own sake and also as a means to further their ambitions. Others find them detached and cold, or they are less fortunate and experience the strong sadistic streak in a Drow’s vicious heart.
Those few drow who have fled to the surface may have turned their back on the chaos and destructiveness of the Drow way of life. However they still remain Drow, with all the competitive drives and ambitions that entails. It is exceedingly rare to find any sign of altruism or conscience even within these Drow."


inbal jivvin rothen





OK Tieflings are a new things to me, as such if there is disagreement with what I post below PM or if your a DM, just edit it :)



"Wretched. Outcasts. Borne without a parent, borne into strange lands of the Lower Planes with nothing but themselves to rely on, the tieflings are part human and part something else. That 'something else' is rarely one thing: the bloodlines that they come from are almost undeniably tinted with fiendish blood. Horns. Goat feet. Tails. Six fingers. Three eyes. Random deformities. A tiefling can look like anything, as long as that "anything" isn't normal. While the aasimar are what most would consider the perfection of human form, the tieflings are the perversion of it. Mutants. Not one of them looks "normal", rather, they are each an individual, both mentally and physically.

The story that each tiefling could tell is sure to be one of mystery, intrigue, betrayal, and greed - and what makes it even more interesting is that it could all just be a lie. Tieflings lie frequently and lie when it suits them to do so. It is their fiendish nature peeking through, tapping them on the shoulders, not letting itself be forgotten. Anger, rage, greed, the 'deadly sins' are like old friends to the tieflings.

Not all tieflings want this. Most hate it, seeing their fiendish blood something that makes them scorned, untrusted, and hated by normal people. They desire to prove themselves, to show the world that they've risen above the stereotype that it's shown to them. They've survived on their own all their life, and they're not going to turn to other people for help. They're going to make a name for themselves in something, or they're going to die trying.

As much some might hate it, the tieflings usually fall in with the low-lifes. The gutter-trash, the thieves, the murderers. Maybe this is another stereotype created by the protective mothers "Come in right now, Jimmy! You know full well that four to antipeak is when the tieflings come out to gobble you up!" In reality, most tieflings aren't really so bad. Most have managed to rise (to some extent) past their beginnings into something else. It is true that throughout the rest of the planes, tieflings usually fall in with the fiends, serving them in one capacity or the other. "
Last edited by Mensha Khaine on Thu Nov 23, 2006 5:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
When there is no other way, the perilous path is the only road to salvation.
Shaolin22
Commoner
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:12 pm

Post by Shaolin22 »

great post, love it.
ChikenKannon
Dasarian Hero
Posts: 1268
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:34 am
Main Player Character: ------
Other PCs: Haven't touched these in ages:
Lok'Tok
Lorne Mearesworth
Mars Benedict
Cpl John Mackev
Gutsnikk
Lorne Xavier Sunderson Falderhouse Skulltickler Mearesworth
Oronar
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow

Post by ChikenKannon »

Can someone sticky this? I feel it is very important for people to read. Maybe if someone is up to task they can make one for Tieflings?
The largest wound will come from those you considered friends.
tenodera
Commoner
Posts: 68
Joined: Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:34 am
Location: Texas

Post by tenodera »

Dont sticky this. This is the narrow minded, although well intended stereotyping some are trying to avoid. You sound fairly well versed in Drow history, yet you only mention Lolth.

What of the followers of Eilistraee? She is a DROW goddess of song and beauty, worshipped under the stars and the moonlight. Completely good. Your one sided post mentions nothing of her. Her freaking creed is is all about aiding the weak and encouraging happiness everywhere lol.

Ghaunadaur - Ok, mostly evil followers but many are of a neutral alignment. Pretty much Lolth-like.

Vhaeraun - Drow god of thievery, and he is all about furthering drow aims and interests on the SURFACE world. He PROMOTES that Drow should work with other elven races, and disdains relations with dwarves/gnomes. Humans/Halflings are most often tolerated.


In the 2nd Edition "Drow of the Underdark" book, it even states that approximately 15% of the entire Drow race is of non evil alignment ("good") and mostly living on the surface. That is quite a sizable portion when you consider that you are referring to an entire population. It goes on to mention Drow with sucessful trading careers in almost all major cities such as Waterdeep, Calimshan, Chessenta and the like.

On a different note however, this is all subjective as this is Dasaria, right? Does the Drow pantheon exist here? I didnt see them listed with the gods. That makes any ooc knowledge of their stenophagous culture a pretty weak argument.
Zahn Zau'rahel - Your friendly (until you're no longer useful) neighborhood Drow.

"Remember kids, it's only evil if you get caught!"
DarkShape
Commoner
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 5:59 pm

Post by DarkShape »

Yeah, any subrace is campaign specific.. Ebberon Drow for instance lean towards Neutral, altho have an even mix of Neuts and Evils, they are more or less Barbarian Elves.

I would actually like to see the Head Honcho write up backgrounds for the subrace 'norms' maybe even have alignment restriction on them. With abberant class/alignments being a rewards for good RP.
ChikenKannon
Dasarian Hero
Posts: 1268
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:34 am
Main Player Character: ------
Other PCs: Haven't touched these in ages:
Lok'Tok
Lorne Mearesworth
Mars Benedict
Cpl John Mackev
Gutsnikk
Lorne Xavier Sunderson Falderhouse Skulltickler Mearesworth
Oronar
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow

Post by ChikenKannon »

I do like your take on the subraces, even if not accepted it could definately be used as how the populous looks at the Drow and Tieflings.
The largest wound will come from those you considered friends.
Bottesini
Commoner
Posts: 51
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 7:49 am
Location: Denton, Texas

Post by Bottesini »

I think the point is more of how these races are considered in general then what they actually might be. One of the things to consider when dealing with most of the societies are very xenophobic for the most part. Especially, if there is a history of bad things happening. The town guards seeing you might be similar to seeing a troll and not even bother talking, but instead just pull swords and attack. Perception often is more important in these things then how a race actually is. (Till I know for sure otherwise I would assume the Drow are thought the same as any other evil race such as orcs, bugbears, goblins, or even something like a red dragon) By no means does there mean there are not a few good ones, but they are under such prejudice that it is very hard for them to go around in open public.

What causes me the most trouble now though is more how are these races treated in this setting. The gods that are mentioned are from forgotten realms which as I have seen so far are not involved at all in Dasaria.

Now none of what is said applies to anyone's character at all. You could be one of the few that are good/ not as evil. In fact you could make it your mission to make the population accept you and your kind.
Dusty
Dasarian Scout
Posts: 234
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:43 am

Post by Dusty »

Can we just note that he didn't write this? See the quotations?

All of this is correct to FR.

Tenodera, you know not what you speak my dear. Ghaunadaurites are almost invariably mad and zealous. They'd sacrifice their own children if they thought Ghaunadaur wanted it. Vhaeraun wants to utterly take over the surface, not make peace with surfacers. Besides that, as far as I know, Dasaria has its own set of gods and its own history for drow.
Fat little moth.
Mensha Khaine
Dasarian Hero
Posts: 715
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:04 am

Post by Mensha Khaine »

tenodera wrote:Dont sticky this. This is the narrow minded, although well intended stereotyping some are trying to avoid. You sound fairly well versed in Drow history, yet you only mention Lolth. .
The post is to set expectations. You now know that if you want to play a good drow, most poeple will be expecting you to be evil. This makes for some great RP as you talk your way out of situations, or it may lead your character to do great acts of kindness to prove otherwise.

Remember only 15% of a population is good OR neutral, thats a vary good reason for them to be given the "evil" stereotype to begin with :)

Anshar/Nergal/Tiamat are gods drow here have worshipped in the past.
When there is no other way, the perilous path is the only road to salvation.
tenodera
Commoner
Posts: 68
Joined: Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:34 am
Location: Texas

Post by tenodera »

Dusty wrote:Can we just note that he didn't write this? See the quotations?

All of this is correct to FR.

Tenodera, you know not what you speak my dear. Ghaunadaurites are almost invariably mad and zealous. They'd sacrifice their own children if they thought Ghaunadaur wanted it. Vhaeraun wants to utterly take over the surface, not make peace with surfacers. Besides that, as far as I know, Dasaria has its own set of gods and its own history for drow.
About Ghaunadaur, some followers are neutral, as taken RIGHT from "The Drow of the Underdark", dear. Where did I say Vhaeraun wanted to make peace? He doesnt seek mindless takeover as you suggest, he mearely seeks to get a foothold on the surface. Sure his intentions might be good, but that hardly implies world dominantion. You are more then welcome to look up the book i mentioned above, as it is sitting right in front of me at the moment.

And yes I noted the quotations, as I had read what he said before on Sshamath, a drow site that isn't all cannon material.
Zahn Zau'rahel - Your friendly (until you're no longer useful) neighborhood Drow.

"Remember kids, it's only evil if you get caught!"
Mensha Khaine
Dasarian Hero
Posts: 715
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:04 am

Post by Mensha Khaine »

tenodera wrote:
Dusty wrote:Can we just note that he didn't write this? See the quotations?

All of this is correct to FR.

Tenodera, you know not what you speak my dear. Ghaunadaurites are almost invariably mad and zealous. They'd sacrifice their own children if they thought Ghaunadaur wanted it. Vhaeraun wants to utterly take over the surface, not make peace with surfacers. Besides that, as far as I know, Dasaria has its own set of gods and its own history for drow.
Some are neutral, as taken RIGHT from "The Drow of the Underdark", Dear.
Hey Tenodera,

We are not saying there are no Good or neutral drow.

Think of it this way, if you meet 10 drow, 8 of them would want to kill you, would you really expect the 11th to be your friend?

I keep stressing the point, but this is ONLY to set expectations.
When there is no other way, the perilous path is the only road to salvation.
IronWaffle
FINALLY GOT A CHAR TO LEVEL 11!
Posts: 420
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:33 pm
Main Player Character: Loramir Kross
Other PCs: Lorick Kennard
Buippi Brew
Bioware Username: IronWaffle

Post by IronWaffle »

These are not statements here of how the Drow should be played, only how they have been played in the past so you can relate how you might think they might fit into the new campaing. I haven't really played one myself but these are my observations:

The tricky thing about the drow race and Dasaria is that they were nerver suposed to exist in the campaing in the first place but along the way they intergrated into the server and were eventually recongnized as part of the Dasarian world. Even trickier about it is that nothing really is written in lore.

It was basically that, unwritten lore. Most drow seemed to worship Nergal and Anshar. Nergal would now be known as Culnul and the new goddess Peralia (Nergal's wife) would be an acceptable diety aswell. Anshar/Alinkahar (Coloth) was a choice some chose aswell. Tiamat (now Ch'taia) was the drow priestess' god of choice from the Nasti's clan. They were all evil gods.

They didn't consider themselves Dasarian or Varanite. Just drow and loyal to their clan which ever one they came from.

Drow in Dasaria are a feared race, they've mingled with demons, attacked towns and spilled the blood of the innocent. They were a reknown evil race. During the Queen's reing, she had gone as far as outlawing the entire drow race, declared enemies of the state. Atonements were alowed, and sanctuary was granted in only the most deserving circumstances that would take players a couple of months to achieve if they wished to play a good drow. These were rare circumstances and I beleive only a small handful of 5 players or so ever achieved it. And I beleive they would be much hated by the Varana empire aswell.

There was an Underdark in Dasaria, deep within the mines of Telkmar (sp?), if I recall right it was filled with druaga aswell.

----------------------

While they might not be outlawed in Varana, I don't find it hard to beleive for them to be feared and hated because they're history is known among both lands, Varanite and Dasarian.

Keep in mind to players playing "drow hating characters" that there is no EOS content yet which makes things a bit difficult politic wise, killing on site (role played through of course) is a very touchy thing right now because there's nowhere else to go.

If you guys are set on making drow characters, I don't know the Dev's stance on it personally, but my opinion is by all means go for it, there's alot you can do with it. You could play perhaps worshipping the old gods, Nergal, anshar or Tiamat, since the stereotypical drow didn't consider themselves Dasarian nor Varanite they wouldn't be bound by their laws on that matter.

All I can personally ask in the situation is that you leave the Forgotten Realms Diety's out of the campaing, stick to the existing ones. Create a story, try and make a clan, rally your kin together, rah rah rah. See what you can cme up with, if the DM's take interest you might find something flourish.
muletang
Dasarian Hero
Posts: 826
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:04 pm
Location: Aotearoa - Land of the Long White Cloud

Post by muletang »

Waffles old chap, you made a very good post, have your self a biscuit :twisted:
I don't feel any shame, I won't apologise
--
"...I do not entertain the possibility of an afterlife, or any deity capable of offering it. Given the world that he created, it would be an impiety against God to believe in him..."
IronWaffle
FINALLY GOT A CHAR TO LEVEL 11!
Posts: 420
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:33 pm
Main Player Character: Loramir Kross
Other PCs: Lorick Kennard
Buippi Brew
Bioware Username: IronWaffle

Post by IronWaffle »

Hoozah!
tenodera
Commoner
Posts: 68
Joined: Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:34 am
Location: Texas

Post by tenodera »

Thanks for the insight Waffles
Zahn Zau'rahel - Your friendly (until you're no longer useful) neighborhood Drow.

"Remember kids, it's only evil if you get caught!"
Post Reply

Return to “General Discussion”