Restrictions on Multi-Classing?

[muletang]

it'd be boring if we were all the same. fun from uber builds comes from working out just how you are going to beat them. I don't think we need to restrict anything in order to have legions of the same thing running around. the multi classing has been put into the game for a reason and is a draw for many.
I see no problem with a Druid taking one lvl of monk because he was taught bare knuckle fighting when he was a lad by his now dead dad...."oh the balance of nature is from nurture and destruction"... etc et blahblahblah.
How on earth do we know that all these builds are out there anyway? (if it is by asking people then ill shut up) or is it by finding oneself impotent in a particular situation but knowing your build is a certain lvl of tough.
What prompted the initial post? was it because you were seeing these people in your realm of the game and were unable to do anything about them and it therefore diminishes your role? (that is sounding in a much harsher tone than intended, please don't grab it as deliberately offensive, I'm just after the motivation for getting so bothered by it that you want to limit the experience for a good few others)
Personally I play pure all the time because I hate to miss out on the 20 lvls of whatever I chose, but thats just me.
As Wyv said, this worked perfectly for 4 years in a really enjoyable world

[Evelond Formos]

*blink*

I will not get into this thread, I'm just going to say a few things, then probably not even look at this topic again:

1. Sometimes it is best to not think of creatures as 'NPCs' or 'PCs', but rather 'Cs'.

2. There is no such thing as a 'player character'. There is a player, and there is a character. You can only be one at a time. When you're playing Dasaria 2, please be a character. Players tolerated, characters welcome.

I basically just said the same thing twice, but . . . meh.

[Ebrim Darkmoon]

I don't understand how they can force you to do anything.

It's not an issue of "force" as in "I absolutely must do this, something has possessed my computer and I have no other alternatives."

Rather it is an issue of "force" as in "I have two choices: I can roleplay in the pre-defined role this guy has set out for me, or I can respawn and spend the rest of the evening *not* roleplaying with other people, but trying to avoid that particular character."

I haven't run into this here, but then I haven't really done much here yet (other than read other diaries and post my own -- I crash a lot.)

Real life has plenty of bad stuff, and so does fake imaginary RP-life.

Unless you're playing Candyland RPG or something... and even then there's cavities.

Christ on a Crutch, people always bring this up, and it's the stupidest justification for poor and disruptive "roleplaying" that I can think of.

Yes, there are never any guarantees that when you log in your character will save the day, or get the girl, or fight evil, or whatever -- and, in fact, the characters I like to play hardly ever do. That's not the point.

The point is that roleplaying is more than being given an assigned script where you follow someone else's character and say "oooooh" and "aaaaaaah" at the appropriate time, or else suffer pain of death, multiple respawns, whatever. Because we are all, after all, playing a game, whether it is a gritty realistic game or a game with puffy clouds and happy fairies and dancing ponies -- it's still a game, and anyone who logs in should have the opportunity to actually play it.

Ebrim ain't the main character in your story, but he is the main character in mine -- and the problem I have is when another player comes along and decides that it's more important that I be a supporting character in his story than it is for me to do anything with mine, on pain of death. And if you've never encountered that scenario in a game, count yourself as very lucky, because it's very frustrating. I'm glad you've always been surrounded by mature players who know when to give and when to take, but I've come across a fair number of "therapy gamers" -- people who roleplay in order to work out some kind of issue they have in real life -- and the thing is, I am not a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist, and I'm not interested in working through someone else's unresolved mother/father issues or whatever.

I'd rather be riffing with other players who are also interested in telling stories. You know, the jazz players who all introduce their own melodies in an attempt to see if they can combine them all together to make it work as a coherent union of stories. And people with uberbuilds can do that just as well as anyone else is -- and again, I feel I need to reiterate (since it seems people are flat out ignoring it -- I don't feel uberbuilds, powerbuilds, twink builds, min/max builds are a problem. In fact, in another thread a while back I spent a few fruitless days attempting to defend people who were trying to play Drow on the grounds that it was possible to use such a race to tell good in-game stories.

I don't care about classes and game mechanics. I care about good in-game stories. I have no clue what class Sebastian Grayle is, but I do think he has one of the best in-game stories on the server, based solely on his forum stories.

The problem occurs when a player decides a game is all about him, all the time. In most circumstances it's possible to just ignore players who are like that, but the the problem with the powerbuilds is that it becomes very easy for the player to make the game all about them, all the time, whether you want it to be or not.

And that has nothing to do with whether or not a game is "candyland." It is possible to play in a dark, gritty campaign setting and still allow the participants to... well... participate, instead of being forced to play the role of another character's cheering squad.

Yeeesh.

[Evelond Formos]

I don't understand how they can force you to do anything.

It's not an issue of "force" as in "I absolutely must do this, something has possessed my computer and I have no other alternatives."

Rather it is an issue of "force" as in "I have two choices: I can roleplay in the pre-defined role this guy has set out for me, or I can respawn and spend the rest of the evening *not* roleplaying with other people, but trying to avoid that particular character."

I haven't run into this here, but then I haven't really done much here yet (other than read other diaries and post my own -- I crash a lot.)

Real life has plenty of bad stuff, and so does fake imaginary RP-life.

Unless you're playing Candyland RPG or something... and even then there's cavities.

Christ on a Crutch, people always bring this up, and it's the stupidest justification for poor and disruptive "roleplaying" that I can think of.

Yes, there are never any guarantees that when you log in your character will save the day, or get the girl, or fight evil, or whatever -- and, in fact, the characters I like to play hardly ever do. That's not the point.

The point is that roleplaying is more than being given an assigned script where you follow someone else's character and say "oooooh" and "aaaaaaah" at the appropriate time, or else suffer pain of death, multiple respawns, whatever. Because we are all, after all, playing a game, whether it is a gritty realistic game or a game with puffy clouds and happy fairies and dancing ponies -- it's still a game, and anyone who logs in should have the opportunity to actually play it.

Ebrim ain't the main character in your story, but he is the main character in mine -- and the problem I have is when another player comes along and decides that it's more important that I be a supporting character in his story than it is for me to do anything with mine, on pain of death. And if you've never encountered that scenario in a game, count yourself as very lucky, because it's very frustrating. I'm glad you've always been surrounded by mature players who know when to give and when to take, but I've come across a fair number of "therapy gamers" -- people who roleplay in order to work out some kind of issue they have in real life -- and the thing is, I am not a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist, and I'm not interested in working through someone else's unresolved mother/father issues or whatever.

I'd rather be riffing with other players who are also interested in telling stories. You know, the jazz players who all introduce their own melodies in an attempt to see if they can combine them all together to make it work as a coherent union of stories. And people with uberbuilds can do that just as well as anyone else is -- and again, I feel I need to reiterate (since it seems people are flat out ignoring it -- I don't feel uberbuilds, powerbuilds, twink builds, min/max builds are a problem. In fact, in another thread a while back I spent a few fruitless days attempting to defend people who were trying to play Drow on the grounds that it was possible to use such a race to tell good in-game stories.

I don't care about classes and game mechanics. I care about good in-game stories. I have no clue what class Sebastian Grayle is, but I do think he has one of the best in-game stories on the server, based solely on his forum stories.

The problem occurs when a player decides a game is all about him, all the time. In most circumstances it's possible to just ignore players who are like that, but the the problem with the powerbuilds is that it becomes very easy for the player to make the game all about them, all the time, whether you want it to be or not.

And that has nothing to do with whether or not a game is "candyland." It is possible to play in a dark, gritty campaign setting and still allow the participants to... well... participate, instead of being forced to play the role of another character's cheering squad.

Yeeesh.

Heheh, I really didn't read most of what you wrote, but you are obviously frustrated by your bold words and the 'yeeesh' at the end. So I'll say one more thing, and this applies to everyone:

Chill out!

[Kell]

I read Christ on a Crutch and I started laughing so hard that I couldn't finish reading further, heheh.

[Ebrim Darkmoon]

... it's been a day.

[Kell]

... it's been a day.

No worries man, we all have those days. Cheer up, it's just a game, nobody cares in the end aslong as we all have fun.

[Grayle]

I read the whole thing, and truly understand his annoyance, but what can be done about it other than changing one's own perspective/techniques? I mean, every players character is the lead in thier own story.

You can't control what other people might do, even by restricting/modifying rules. Play with different players. You'll eventually find those who match your play-style and maturity.

[obsoletenihilist]

Christ on a Crutch, people always bring this up, and it's the stupidest justification for poor and disruptive "roleplaying" that I can think of.

Yes, there are never any guarantees that when you log in your character will save the day, or get the girl, or fight evil, or whatever -- and, in fact, the characters I like to play hardly ever do. That's not the point.

The point is that roleplaying is more than being given an assigned script where you follow someone else's character and say "oooooh" and "aaaaaaah" at the appropriate time, or else suffer pain of death, multiple respawns, whatever. Because we are all, after all, playing a game, whether it is a gritty realistic game or a game with puffy clouds and happy fairies and dancing ponies -- it's still a game, and anyone who logs in should have the opportunity to actually play it.

Ebrim ain't the main character in your story, but he is the main character in mine -- and the problem I have is when another player comes along and decides that it's more important that I be a supporting character in his story than it is for me to do anything with mine, on pain of death. And if you've never encountered that scenario in a game, count yourself as very lucky, because it's very frustrating. I'm glad you've always been surrounded by mature players who know when to give and when to take, but I've come across a fair number of "therapy gamers" -- people who roleplay in order to work out some kind of issue they have in real life -- and the thing is, I am not a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist, and I'm not interested in working through someone else's unresolved mother/father issues or whatever.

I'd rather be riffing with other players who are also interested in telling stories. You know, the jazz players who all introduce their own melodies in an attempt to see if they can combine them all together to make it work as a coherent union of stories. And people with uberbuilds can do that just as well as anyone else is -- and again, I feel I need to reiterate (since it seems people are flat out ignoring it -- I don't feel uberbuilds, powerbuilds, twink builds, min/max builds are a problem. In fact, in another thread a while back I spent a few fruitless days attempting to defend people who were trying to play Drow on the grounds that it was possible to use such a race to tell good in-game stories.

I don't care about classes and game mechanics. I care about good in-game stories. I have no clue what class Sebastian Grayle is, but I do think he has one of the best in-game stories on the server, based solely on his forum stories.

The problem occurs when a player decides a game is all about him, all the time. In most circumstances it's possible to just ignore players who are like that, but the the problem with the powerbuilds is that it becomes very easy for the player to make the game all about them, all the time, whether you want it to be or not.

And that has nothing to do with whether or not a game is "candyland." It is possible to play in a dark, gritty campaign setting and still allow the participants to... well... participate, instead of being forced to play the role of another character's cheering squad.

Yeeesh.

I can easily see what you mean by that colorful elaboration Ebrim, but real life has self absorbed narcassitic egomaniacs and so does Das.

It's just all about how you deal with it. Do you get frustrated that your character is told to laugh at a joke or get his skull pasted, or do you laugh at the joke and decide the best way to get back at Mr. I'm So Important Everyone Must Laugh At My Joke.

Everyone has a story to tell, and just because some are less mature about letting others tell and weave their stories into something awesome with everyone else's does not mean their actions are not justified.

What I'm saying about all of this is it's IC, and it can easily be taken care of there. If Therapy Gamer has a problem after his bully gets wiped clean by a gang of citizens that have had enough of him, then chances are good Therapy Gamer will stop playing because it's no longer theraputic. If he decides his character learns a lesson from it, or his character decides to get revenge, etc, then what's the problem? He's roleplaying, albeit he's not too concerned about anyone but himself OOCly.

Even people who start as a therapy gamer can grow and learn to truly enjoy roleplaying. I know I did.

edit: and yeah, what Grayle said about finding the right people to match your playstyle is right. Luckily I fell in with some right from the start, once your crashing problem gets resolved (if ever) then I'm sure poking around can net you some good folks to play with too.

[Mensha Khaine]

When you are in the mood to RP and you meet someone that is in the mood just to PvP you are bound to get problems. I think this is the heart of the problem we are seeing here.

In Das1, we would often send tells to work out if another player was interested in PvPing. This is not a perfect system, but it did help with the problem as not everyone likes it.

[Stormknife]

The point is that roleplaying is more than being given an assigned script where you follow someone else's character and say "oooooh" and "aaaaaaah" at the appropriate time, or else suffer pain of death, multiple respawns, whatever.

Or cower in fear because (insert reason here). Yeah, I hear ya. This is why level 20 wizards exist...it's not a direct solution, I know, but you'd be amazed how docile some otherwise bully-like characters become when there's a wrecking ball just waiting to be cut loose on them.

Not a fix to the issue of powerbuilds tossing their weight around, per se, but it is immensely satisfying to blow away some of the bastards when they deserve it.

[BeyondRedemption]

I definitely see Ebrim's point. I just want to add though that if you want to keep outside unwanted confrontations to a minimum, make sure you play your character in such a way that he seamlessly fits in the world and doesn't draw unnecessary attention to himself.

Making a stink about how your quarterstaff is actually a walking stick and not a weapon and obstinately refusing (through good RP mind you) to strap it to your back and stop wielding it isn't carrying a low profile. It is unreasonable to expect not to have the situation escalate.

Basically, don't be an ish disturber if you don't want your ish disturbed.

[muletang]

Making a stink about how your quarterstaff is actually a walking stick and not a weapon and obstinately refusing (through good RP mind you) to strap it to your back and stop wielding it isn't carrying a low profile

but its just too damn big i tell you!

/Riykhan

[Zephis]

actually if were all worried about Uber people doing things to effect us IC..

Then Frankly I'm more worried about the "Uber" Roleplayer who manages to make all the contacts, gets to damn near every event and then uses their new found IC abilities and alliances to totally destroy my enjoyment of the game.

But while I'm worried about it I'm not going to start asking for things to be done about things that haven't even happened yet.

[broncoblitz]

Then Frankly I'm more worried about the "Uber" Roleplayer who manages to make all the contacts, gets to damn near every event and then uses their new found IC abilities and alliances to totally destroy my enjoyment of the game.

You mean the nergalites?


(yes i know its a low blow but i thought it was funny hehe)