Stealing

[Wyvern]

Pickpocketing at levels 6+ is just as big a problem to the victim as it is to low levels. Probably moreso because it is more likely you will have more valuable items. So I don't see it as a solution. I would much rather get pickpocketed at level 1-5 than higher levels because I have far less to lose.

EDIT - and with regards to the second point, we are receiving few to no official reports of grief-pickpocketing. What I am hearing is that there are isolated incidents. I have also heard how the sleight of hand skill has been used by roleplay-oriented thieves, who have had rewarding roleplay experiences triggered by the theft of an item. Yes it is an irritation, but there are ways around it. And ultimately, is it really such a great loss, given the relative ease of earning gold and items?

[Kartina]

Turn off pickpocketing entirely. Problem solved.

Yes, I know.. people will whine because of the 'lost roleplaying opportunities'. But if you are a good roleplayer, living in your own perfect world, where everyone is great at it, you do not need the skill to roleplay a pickpocket anyway.

When it comes down to it, there are more people using this ability to grief, than to roleplay.

[jawsofhana]

Funny thing,

Something exists in the game, to stop this,
Its called SPOT skill.

See, then you could actually DO something.

If a boar hits you, you work on your AC,
If a Trap hits you, you work on your Disarm,
if a thief hits you, People complain.

HEY WYVERN !

Im a low level thief, and am tired of people casting this
MAGIC MISSLE. I mean, it NEVER misses !! its kinda
unbalanced !! Id like to see if removed, or capped.
And this MAGE ARMOUR ? I mean, if they want armour,
they should have to buy it, like everyone else. And Healing ?
Clerics ? WAYYYY Overpowered !! Have them buy potions
like the rest of us !! I mean... seriously.
Where does it end.

People, come on. Use your common sense, if your getting Pickpocketed,
You MIGHT have to spend a few seconds and think, HOW did this
happen, and HOW can I keep it from happening again.

Spot, + wis, +The free bracers that are given out at
the end of the cutter quest, Should keep things even.

Nice.. common sense is such a great thing. I am sure if you had any of it left you would maybe retract your post.

There is indeed a spot skill in the game, but most of us know that you can not have a spot skill higher than the pickpocket skill of a character more than 2-3 levels higher than you.
So putting points in spot will not help a level 6 when the level 14 rogue comes to rob him down to his underwear.

A level 3 rogue with maxed dexterity, Skill focus: Pickpocket, and the right background can actually steal quite easily from level 10 characters with classes who does not have spot as a class skill. (even if these characters have maxed the ability)

Since I play a rogue, I would be very happy to demonstrate this to you on your in-game characters.

[k9burn]

Wyvern,

I do like the idea of putting a weight limit on items that can be stolen, since that is probably the easiest to implement, and makes quite a bit of sense too. I could even look into a solution if your team doesn't have the time...

[Eowade]

In reguards to spot as a defense I had a question as I am not sure how the mechanics in NWN 2 works in reguards to slight of hand. Does spotting someone trying to pick your pocket actually stop the attempt or do they still get the item but it just gives you a message that you saw them do it? If its the latter then having a high spot skill really isn't a great defense against pickpockets cause they still get the item even if you kill them afterwords and they don't have to give it back after you kill them plus if it's a high level picking the pocket of a low level then even if they do spot them they will likely get themselves killed or just have to suck it up maybe try to RP with other players to get them to kill the thief either way they still have no way to get back the item.

If it works like this (and I am in no way certain it does) I have an idea. I think the game marks items that have been stolen as such. If I am correct and it does would it be possible to have any items marked as stolen drop on death?

Edit: do I win the run on sentence of the year award?
Edit of my edit: When does not equal win

[White Wolf935]

most theives i've seen just bumps into me saying nothing. so right now tren is very spottish, if you run into him, and he knows your a former theif, or your bumping into everyone else around him he's going to ram you down for theivery.

[Greensleeves]

In reguards to spot as a defense I had a question as I am not sure how the mechanics in NWN 2 works in reguards to slight of hand. Does spotting someone trying to pick your pocket actually stop the attempt or do they still get the item but it just gives you a message that you saw them do it? If its the latter then having a high spot skill really isn't a great defense against pickpockets cause they still get the item even if you kill them afterwords and they don't have to give it back after you kill them plus if it's a high level picking the pocket of a low level then even if they do spot them they will likely get themselves killed or just have to suck it up maybe try to RP with other players to get them to kill the thief either way they still have no way to get back the item.

If it works like this (and I am in no way certain it does) I have an idea. I think the game marks items that have been stolen as such. If I am correct and it does would it be possible to have any items marked as stolen drop on death?

Correct, the thief rolls against a dc 20 to determine whether or not he steals an item. He then rolls against your spot check to see if if he was detected.

[Kartina]

"The Guard will require guidelines on how to reposess a stolen item once the perpetrator is accosted.

Oddly enough, it seems a legal loophole prevents us from doing such at this point.

That would still not address combating the unfortunate occurence itself, but at least we might be better equiped to help in cases we are handling.

In fact, I believe a captured thief should have all their posessions stripped off of them. Whatever cannot be returned to the rightfull owners can be sold at discount prices by a an officially appointed Guard or Ministry representative, with the income used toward civic projects."

She falls silent, recalling how the rampant thievery made her join the Guard in the first place.

[Kell]

I'd like to say to all the thieves who think it's funny to abuse their leet skills on lowlevel characters;

Get lost you jackarse. Pick on someone of your own size, will you?

Be a good sport and go screw your mother over instead of stealing from someone who comes clean from that Inn and of whom you -know- she or he wont see it. If you see someone has no coins whatsoever; leave them alone.

Geesh. Common sense is far to find these days, innit.

Other then that I have nothing to say. People can jump high and low about how unfair it is they can't use their thieving skills and whatnot but it all boils down to the same thing;

If it's no fun to play with you, you'll end up playing with yourself and with nobody else.

HEEEED my words.

[xAndersx]

My long winded post was sent "to hell" so here is an attempt at a shorter one.

I wholeheartedly agree with Vahene and Jaws on this one. If any of my characters got robbed like that I'd be so angry I'd log off, curse the game and not come back in a long time. To me it would feel like being on the receiving end of extreme rudeness which has OOC effects of lost gaming hours. Stolen time. No matter how much I enjoyed those hours, redoing everything just to get back to the starting point isn't fun, especially knowing that at any time they can be lost AGAIN. Doesn't matter if it was a healing potion at level 1 or a giant sword of uberness at level 17.

Not everyone enjoys the whole "oh look I got pickpocketed.. hahahaha now let's roleplay the part of an an upset but in the end pathetic, helpless victim and chase the glorious, witty and heroic thief and probably not ever see my lost item anyway (unless the other player, in their divine grace, decide to give it back) but yay!!!" kind of roleplay. And that's just if the thief tried to roleplay - let's not even talk about griefing.

To me that's like roleplaying being humiliated. Not fun (except in very special circumstance perhaps and no, I wasn't thinking of anything kinky so hush!), so no thank you. I'd be more like "bloody @$&%# this sucks!" And then i'd toss my teddy by logging off in frustration. So yes, I guess it is about pouting because of not-enjoying the game. Having to redo a lot of things, hours of gameplay lost just to satisfy some pr*ck who want to help theirselves to my stuff. No thanks. Not even in the name of roleplay, actually.

Anyway, I don't expect this to be changed, since so many seem to think the pros of pickpocketing outweighs the cons but.. I felt that I had to support the other few people who felt the same way as I did. Sorry if it's an unpopular viewpoint. And sorry if I sounded angry.. I just really feel for the original poster.

[PrimalSign]

HEEEED my words.

Jacob Marley, is that you?

[Eowade]

Correct, the thief rolls against a dc 20 to determine whether or not he steals an item. He then rolls against your spot check to see if if he was detected.

I was afraid it worked like that since thats how NWN 1 did it. That means that once a thief reaches level 17 (even lower with skill focus and their ability modifiers being higher than 0) there is zero chance of failing a pick pocket attempt really so they can get something off you any time they want. It seems there should be something to counter it otherwise the only defense against a good pickpocket is to kill them before they get close to you which could be rather chaotic.

Edit: I can't even quote the right person today I should get some more sleep.

[JayZup]

This has degeneratred to a whine fest,
and Ive been personally i nsulted by one person,
So Im out. I wish you all the best.

[Chia]

You know, JayZup, sometimes the tone of the original message will dictate the tone of the direct reply...

That said, here's my take - and you didn't hear that from me!

I opted out of pick pocketing as a skill altogether for two reasons - first of all, the mechanics of the game are so one-sided that there is little fear the rogue herself truly will have about engaging in such an activity. At most, when you are caught, you are killed - but you still keep the item, anyway. At high levels, trust me, I wouldn't mind dying several times just to get the Armor of Absolute Sweetness.

Yes, you can employ another rogue to retrieve the item, but I feel that is a bit of a handicaped resolution - there is no control over which item is being stolen, so the target will have to himself be a target of, if not balant grief-picking, then major annoyance. Things like that have a tendency to spiral out of control...

One could say, "serves them right", and I agree with that; however, what if the person you suspect, and sic the allied rogue at, is not in fact the actual offender?

Another issue is the realism of pickpocketing in general. If Joe the Stinky steals a greatsword off of a half-orc five levels higher, and the half-orc realizes that before Joe can run away, Joe would get pummeled into the ground, have the sword taken back, and most likely whatever else he had on him - which is absolutely not possible unless consentual given current system.

Basically, it boils down to the fact that pick-pocketing does not require consent from the target, whereas retrieval of the stolen pieces requires the willingness of the rogue to not only roleplay, but actually allow "defeat".

Unfortunately, in my experience, that happens less than frequently.

Yet another issue is the compatibility of pick pocketing with the game world. From what I read so far, Varana has a rather simple approach to lawbreakers, i.e. prison/slavery/execution. It is possible from a player's perspective to wait with using the skill until they are high enough level to virtually eliminate the chance of being detected, especially when they are careful with whom they steal from. My question is - how do they practice to reach such mastery without being caught?

No training can make one a master, no matter what the area. Yet, achieving high level of skill without a criminal record and/or associated penalties means that the thief either has a perfect score (:roll:), or simply received the gift from a magic fairy.

Furthermore, the ability to log off and be safe is also incredibly empowering for the thief. While she can approach any player when -she- chooses to, the victim must depend on the thief's schedule and whim when to carry out the resulting confrontation - something I found very difficult to do on any server with reasonable count of areas.

Unless there are ways of balancing out the act of stealing through in-game actions no matter what class the player chose, the skill will always be stacked against other players.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but it seems the only possible solution after being stolen from as it is right now is hiring another thief, and relying on the chance of them being able to find the first and actually get the item that was stolen.

From what I see, the guards cannot do anything to return the stolen item even if they are present and catch the thief as it happens without the thief's out of character willingness to cooperate.

There is no way for anybody to search the rogue's belongings if they are suspected against the rogue player's will.

Basically, they are free to do as they please, while anybody attempting to react to their action is extremely restricted.

By the way... what is the official penalty for stealing? I just want to know whether to shout bloody murder when wrongly accused, or simply smirk...

It's not easy being a tiefling

[Eowade]

This has degeneratred to a whine fest,
and Ive been personally i nsulted by one person,
So Im out. I wish you all the best.

Hope you were not refering to my posts there. Was just trying to clear up if spot was actually a defense against pick pockets which it looks like it's not and there is nothing that actually hampers the pickpocket attempt it's just a dc 20 check. Has anyone tested if turning someone to hostile gives them a negative on the dc check. If I recall correctly there was a penalty to pickpocketing a hostile target in NWN 1.